Looking for a east coast all mountain ski

[Kodiak]

Do you have video of your rapid slash turns? Also are rapid slash turns the best way or the only way to ski bumps/ trees?

Take what I say with a grain of salt, I have not had formal training since I was probably 12, 30 now. I just learn form watching videos and others, I am pretty good at replicating what I see.
First: this would be the standard of skiing steeps, but I personally found that on a black or really a double black diamond that is straight blue ice the edges slip out from under you and you end up sliding down on your hip. So, if you take the first video and doing something like in this you can go almost straight down while keeping speed in check. The first video is perfect for place out west or in Switzerland, never had issues with ice in Zermatt, but at places like whiteface or Gore's slope "the Rumor" you can have literally no snow and just blue ice.

 

[Kodiak]

A lot of speculation about ski characteristics going on in this thread, based on "book knowledge." It's fun to do that, but don't assume it's a good way to choose a ski that's a fit for you, without a lot of demo sessions to put the facts and figures in a real world context.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried a ski that I expected to be "chocolate" only to find that it was really more like coffee or almond. Still brown, but not at all the same thing. One year Ski came out with a rave review of the Nordica Steadfast, characterizing it as light and quick and great in bumps. Lots of folks here agreed, more or less. When I got on it I felt like I was skiing a freaking two-by-four. Had the reverse experience, too, skiing "demanding" skis that I thought were a hoot.

Anyway, you get the point.

True, DEMO days are just far and few in between for me and when I able to go on that specific day or they are so late in the season here that it is not really worth it.

 

[Lauren]

On my 2.0s I have no problem with tight turns, except in the narrowest terrain when going slow/3d terrain.

This is where I think a shorter ski might be the answer rather than a softer one. Too soft of a ski will have a speed limit. But a stiff short one will give maneuverability while maintaining a solid platform. This might be more of a personal preference and your mileage may vary.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah the videos you are watching are utter crap....

 

[Tony S]

yeah the videos you are watching are utter crap....

Josh's comment may be impolitic, but it's on the money with regard to the second clip, for sure.

Taos Ski Week!

 

[GregK]

Take what I say with a grain of salt, I have not had formal training since I was probably 12, 30 now. I just learn form watching videos and others, I am pretty good at replicating what I see.
First: this would be the standard of skiing steeps, but I personally found that on a black or really a double black diamond that is straight blue ice the edges slip out from under you and you end up sliding down on your hip. So, if you take the first video and doing something like in this you can go almost straight down while keeping speed in check. The first video is perfect for place out west or in Switzerland, never had issues with ice in Zermatt, but at places like whiteface or Gore's slope "the Rumor" you can have literally no snow and just blue ice.

The first video is decent and had my beginner gf watch some of his beginner/starting to ski videos as he always explains things pretty well. The second video has bad habits that he can get away with because of his short, light skis with taper that would be easy to lift and skid turns. In the first video, one of the crucial points is going flat and light on the ski before starting the next turn and then engaging your edges. Most people have issues with the "going flat before rotating" and the first exercise in the first video mentions that too. In the 1:30 area he talks about how hard it is to rotate a ski that isn't flat.

The second video he is bypassing the "get the ski flat and then rotate" step and just lifting the ski over to the next turn before skidding it along but never fully engaging those edges. Second video is like semi hockey stops started by lifting the ski. The second video skier would have a nightmare of a time with long, heavy skis with that method.

Doing the first video method, the skis could be long and heavy without issue especially those with rocker as you are never lifting them and they would actually be easier to ski on steep, rough terrain as they are not being bumped around. That's why you will hear on this site "weight doesn't matter unless you're in the air or touring" as you shouldn't be lifting your skis in the air, just unweighting them flat.

Doing the first method and fully engaging those edges if needed would be a far better way of skiing any steeps. Most of the skis recommend on this thread would also hold that edge far better when engaged on harder snow/ice too.

What might be happening is people are more nervous when they see harder snow and sometimes fall into bad habits. Use the proper method regardless and on those harder snow days you will be on skis with hopefully better bite that you will learn to trust.

I would still give a quick check on base flatness and run a bastard file across the edges to see if any spots(especially tip/tail) catch. Edge high will make the the step of 'going flat and the rotating' much more difficult and base high will make that ski feel nervous and too easy to pivot when not on edge. Edge high may cause the "I feel like I have to lift the ski" in tight spots and base high would be downright scary on steeps hard snow/ice.

 

[Kodiak]

This is where I think a shorter ski might be the answer rather than a softer one. Too soft of a ski will have a speed limit. But a stiff short one will give maneuverability while maintaining a solid platform. This might be more of a personal preference and your mileage may vary.

valid point

 

[Kodiak]

to josh matta, tony s, gregk:

Somebody asked for a video, so trying my best way to describe. Neither are of me and the second def has some flaws.

GregK: I always check my bases for flatness and ensure they are perfect and I have not problem of going flat and rotating. Your point of getting nervous it definitely true, for me I get nervous when it is straight blue ice, no snow, and just standing still on your edges they want to wash out. My current skis have .5 degree bevel and 2 degree side angle or 88 degree depending on how you look at it.

Forgot to address how i ski bumps, probably not the best, but I will only cover larger bumps, because smaller ones I typically blast through with small jump turns/lifting weight to rapidly pivot on top of the bump. For larger bumps I pick a line and use the back of a bump to turn on.

 

[Josh Matta]

Josh's comment may be impolitic, but it's on the money with regard to the second clip, for sure.

Taos Ski Week!

The BASI presenter uses spinal twist and angulation which is ironic since he is talking about upper and lower body separation. His hips are swinging all over the place instead of stable hips with legs twisting and tip underneath those hips.

So the 1st video is just less obviously crap, underneath its well done production, camera and seemingly professional presenter.

 

[Josh Matta]

@Kodiak basically everything you are saying is giving me an image on how you have to ski due to skill your are lacking. The skis you have right now(your factions should not be too stiff for anything at your size. The underlying issues with how you are skiing are the issue and not the skis you are. I know you didnt ask for this, and we all love buying new gear (Hell I own 15+ pairs of skis) and if you want to buy new gear by all means by new gear and some of the new gear may even help you accomplish more on the terrain your weak on.

but if I had to guess.

1.your balance is AFT all the time, I know you are not falling down but trust me I can picture straight lower legs and an upright upper back that doesnt move down the hill.

2.you use hips/upper body to turn, instead of your legs from the femur down.

3.you view turns as a means to slow down and not as means to control a path down the hill.

and I know you knew here, you should realize my bluntness is here to help here. I dont really care how you ski, or if you get some sweet new skis but to be better at which you want to be better does not require new skis.

 

[Lauren]

valid point

I’ll throw in one last point about length, to give an understanding of where my viewpoint is coming from. Even though I’m not your size, my husband is, almost exactly. He’s an advanced skier that will pretty much ski anything. His shortest skis are 170s, longest being 181. His daily driver is a 177, anything much longer he finds to be a lot of work in eastern trees, where tight nimble turns are necessary, especially if there’s no fresh snow to be found.

 

[Tony S]

Somebody asked for a video, so trying my best way to describe. Neither are of me and the second def has some flaws.

We're just saying that's it's good to have good models. That's all.

 

[Kodiak]

@Kodiak basically everything you are saying is giving me an image on how you have to ski due to skill your are lacking. The skis you have right now(your factions should not be too stiff for anything at your size. The underlying issues with how you are skiing are the issue and not the skis you are. I know you didnt ask for this, and we all love buying new gear (Hell I own 15+ pairs of skis) and if you want to buy new gear by all means by new gear and some of the new gear may even help you accomplish more on the terrain your weak on.

but if I had to guess.

1.your balance is AFT all the time, I know you are not falling down but trust me I can picture straight lower legs and an upright upper back that doesnt move down the hill.

2.you use hips/upper body to turn, instead of your legs from the femur down.

3.you view turns as a means to slow down and not as means to control a path down the hill.

and I know you knew here, you should realize my bluntness is here to help here. I dont really care how you ski, or if you get some sweet new skis but to be better at which you want to be better does not require new skis.

Thanks, for your candid opinion. I have no problem with somebody being blunt, I just have the view point of if you see a problem provide a solution/why do you see it this way. Which you definitely did. Like I said I have had no formal training for a long time and next time I am at a place with some great instructors I will. I find my factions only stiff when going super slow (typically large moguls (3ft or bigger) or trees where I suck at), otherwise I love the ski and it will stay as my daily driver unless conditions would dictate otherwise. Wouldn't a shorter and less stiff ski help with turns and forgiveness to build on abilities. I guess at the same time my factions will punish bad form and not staying in drivers seat, which in itself helps form. To answer your guesses, sadly I do not have a video of me skiing to have people critique/for me to see what to improve on:

1: I find my balance is usually pretty far forward, sometimes too far. Knees are bent well, good athletic stance. I am probably stiff in the upper body, always have been even when running. When skiing I would say my upper body/ back is a straight line (I do not hunch) that is slightly tilted forward. Lower legs, I am guessing your reffering to knee down is always canted forward with a lot of pressure forward when hard skiing. My current boots are the first ones I do not bend in half (tecnica ten.2 hvl 120). With gear on I am probably more like 225-230 lbs. The times I do get in the backseat is probably large moguls (I try no to, but seemed to get bounced) or when I am getting lazy and it something that throws me there.

2: Upper body stays pointed down the hill, mixture of using hips and legs to turn the skis. When at speed I think I use my lower legs. Definitely use the hips to much at almost standstill or super slow speeds.

3. I see that turns are a way to control speed, but also what path/how I want to go down the hill.

I also just want another set of skis, I want a ski that I can continue to grow in and fits how I like ski/feels different than my current set.

 

[Kodiak]

I’ll throw in one last point about length, to give an understanding of where my viewpoint is coming from. Even though I’m not your size, my husband is, almost exactly. He’s an advanced skier that will pretty much ski anything. His shortest skis are 170s, longest being 181. His daily driver is a 177, anything much longer he finds to be a lot of work in eastern trees, where tight nimble turns are necessary, especially if there’s no fresh snow to be found.

Thanks, that's how I feel.

 

[David]

I'm shrinking and down to 5'11", 250#'s. I love my Stockli SR88's ad my midwest daily drivers. They changed them for a few years and made them wimpy but they are back foe 19/20.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Big Faction fan here with a Dictator 3.0 (106mm) in 182cm my weapon of choice. Call them a western bowl ski that I able to get out about 30 days a season at Killington. Love these boards on soft spring mogul day. If conditions require using some rapid slash turns I would be on my M5 Mantra's or Renoun Endurance's.

The Volkl Deacon Lowrider at 84mm was one ski that I loved in your desired range.

Fellow Clyde here at 6' 240 lbs.

 

[Kodiak]

Big Faction fan here with a Dictator 3.0 (106mm) in 182cm my weapon of choice. Call them a western bowl ski that I able to get out about 30 days a season at Killington. Love these boards on soft spring mogul day. If conditions require using some rapid slash turns I would be on my M5 Mantra's or Renoun Endurance's.

The Volkl Deacon Lowrider at 84mm was one ski that I loved in your desired range.

Fellow Clyde here at 6' 240 lbs.

Surprised you got that many days on your 3.0s. what do you think about the dictator 1.0s or the chapters?

 

[Guy in Shorts]

Surprised you got that many days on your 3.0s. what do you think about the dictator 1.0s or the chapters?

Haven't been on either as the Faction Rep that used to hang out at mountain is gone. The Dictator 3.0's were my opening day ski yesterday as I expected the snow to be soft and manky.

 

[Josh Matta]

Thanks, for your candid opinion. I have no problem with somebody being blunt, I just have the view point of if you see a problem provide a solution/why do you see it this way. Which you definitely did. Like I said I have had no formal training for a long time and next time I am at a place with some great instructors I will. I find my factions only stiff when going super slow (typically large moguls (3ft or bigger) or trees where I suck at), otherwise I love the ski and it will stay as my daily driver unless conditions would dictate otherwise. Wouldn't a shorter and less stiff ski help with turns and forgiveness to build on abilities. I guess at the same time my factions will punish bad form and not staying in drivers seat, which in itself helps form. To answer your guesses, sadly I do not have a video of me skiing to have people critique/for me to see what to improve on:

1: I find my balance is usually pretty far forward, sometimes too far. Knees are bent well, good athletic stance. I am probably stiff in the upper body, always have been even when running. When skiing I would say my upper body/ back is a straight line (I do not hunch) that is slightly tilted forward. Lower legs, I am guessing your reffering to knee down is always canted forward with a lot of pressure forward when hard skiing. My current boots are the first ones I do not bend in half (tecnica ten.2 hvl 120). With gear on I am probably more like 225-230 lbs. The times I do get in the backseat is probably large moguls (I try no to, but seemed to get bounced) or when I am getting lazy and it something that throws me there.

2: Upper body stays pointed down the hill, mixture of using hips and legs to turn the skis. When at speed I think I use my lower legs. Definitely use the hips to much at almost standstill or super slow speeds.

3. I see that turns are a way to control speed, but also what path/how I want to go down the hill.

I also just want another set of skis, I want a ski that I can continue to grow in and fits how I like ski/feels different than my current set.

So......

1. If your not hunched, you are not forward, you may feel like you on your balls of your feet, or pressing your shin forward. Both of these while seem forward are not actually forward.

a good skier will have slightly more weight on their heels, ankle slightly flexed(not pressed forward), knees slightly bent, pelvis tilted as if an imaginary tail is between your legs, and the upper body bending forward, this can look like hunching......In fact I would say hunching is closer to ideal, than a straight back.

I would also say that your boots once you do things correctly will end up being too soft. Id go so far to say that at your weight if those boots dont feels to soft, something is wrong.

2. Hips should never turn, but if your back, and you are judging by the first point you made its the only way to get a turn to start sometimes.

3. in a round about way turns do control our speed, but if you find a path that is the speed you want to go and you ski that path as fast as you can. Ski the slow line fast.

 

[Dan P]

Sounds to me like you may want a very light ski with little to no metal in it. Kore 93 or Kendo 88 would be my recs.
As I understand it, the 2019 and 2020 KORE models are the same ski (slight graphic change) and there are deals to be had on the 19s. The Kendo has metal, but not much, is narrower under foot, and in your "preferred" range. I do however think that looking at the slightly wider, no metal Kore 93 is worth your while.
I can only go by what I have read about the Kendo...they are new for this year,

A pair of KORE 99s in 180cm length is my New England daily driver. Being taller and heavier I went wider, while still not going long (for me). They are light enough to easily toss around on moguls or in glades, super easy to ski slowly, laying down med speed carving turns are no prob, scrubbing speed off isn no problem, hard charging is no problem, they float on freshies, and chop thru crud....they are just great great great all around skis.