The renouns are pretty good looking, but $$. How did you find the liberty's shovel? The V76 definitely interested me, I was just unsure if it would still feel like and all mountain ski or feel more like a soft race ski. Gore is definitely my favorite, but I am a 3 hour drive from it, I am virtually in Canada on the lake.
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Looking for a east coast all mountain ski
- Thread starter Kodiak
- Start date
The renouns are pretty good looking, but $$. How did you find the liberty's shovel? The V76 definitely interested me, I was just unsure if it would still feel like and all mountain ski or feel more like a soft race ski. Gore is definitely my favorite, but I am a 3 hour drive from it, I am virtually in Canada on the lake.
That makes three of us, though I commute there.
Re what is are rapid slash turns?
So, I looked up what a slash turn is.
start with,
https://www.steamboatpowdercats.com/2018/02/17/the-art-of-the-slash/
then,
Slashes don't appear to lend themselves to rapid linked turns, except at Iceface, where a slash would yield no loss of speed.
BTW, didn't know what it was at the time, but I've done a slash with the Brahma's. Not at Iceface though
So, I looked up what a slash turn is.
start with,
https://www.steamboatpowdercats.com/2018/02/17/the-art-of-the-slash/
then,
Slashes don't appear to lend themselves to rapid linked turns, except at Iceface, where a slash would yield no loss of speed.
BTW, didn't know what it was at the time, but I've done a slash with the Brahma's. Not at Iceface though
Re what is are rapid slash turns?
So, I looked up what a slash turn is.
start with,
https://www.steamboatpowdercats.com/2018/02/17/the-art-of-the-slash/
then,
Slashes don't appear to lend themselves to rapid linked turns, except at Iceface, where a slash would yield no loss of speed.
BTW, didn't know what it was at the time, but I've done a slash with the Brahma's. Not at Iceface though
I guess I would call it a half slash on icy hard pack, linking them together rapidly to keep a narrower trajectory in steep terrain. Where carving is to wide in a chute or it is so icy and steep that going to far side ways will cause your edges to slip, so really just using the power of your tails to cut a little speed. Maybe this is called something different.
Using tails to cut speed on an icy steep pitch... I don't know. For that, I would recommend an 2013-2015 all mountain ski, from before they started adding taper (just learned what that word means) to the tips. Then, instead of cutting speed with tails, one can cut speed with very early turn initiation and very rapid short turns. I find that the Brahma's can't do that nearly as well as earlier skis. Neither can a tapered-tip Zero G 85, despite its narrow width; not that one would consider it in-resort; just for turn capability discussion. The skis I've experienced that can do rapid short, complete turns that start high, are like the 2014 Magnum 8.5 Ti, or a 2014 Ranger 84, or a I-don't-know-what-year Fischer Watea 90's. So, would that be the shape of a slalom ski, but in the 80's and 90's widths, and with a touch of rocker?? Don't know what modern skis fit that description, which is why I still often use the Magnum's at Iceface, or where it is even steeper and just as icy.
I'll qualify the statement. The Brahma's are capable of very short turns that start high. But, one has to be skiing slowly, like when doing slow-skiing-on-icy-steeps drills, so not rapid - deliberate is a good word. Once speed builds up to what normal skiing might be, they can't, or I can't get them to, do short rapid turns. By short, I mean less than cattrack width; may half; maybe less.
Edit:
Here's a comparison of shapes, Brahma on left, Magnum on right,
Edit 2:
Just looked at a list of current all mountain skis. Not comprehensive,
https://freeskier.com/stories/best-all-mountain-skis-2020
Looking at shape, the Mantra's catch my eye. 90's width, but ok. I am guessing though that they are too stiff to bend into short turns like what you describe.
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I had no problem in the Spring piles. For me the tips drove right thru it all, no deflection, no tip shake (personal huge peeve) on the frozen cord they carved great.
I was on the 2020 V76W- I like lighter nimble skis, I like skis to 'hug the earth' w/me skiing them and not along for the ride, I make lots of turns big and small and I need zoom factor. I Love my Renouns and now that Renoun made the Atlas 80 I"m intrigued by them since the z-90's are just amazing but dang those Liberty's were so much fun!!!
Renoun is out of Burlington it that any closer to you? maybe you can get on a pair to demo? So many great skis!!
Found more,
https://www.skiessentials.com/2020-ski-test/category/mens-all-mountain/
What catches my eye, for what I'd be looking for to make rapid short turns, are Head Monster, Liberty Evolve, Rossi Experience, Volkl Kendo, and of course again the Mantra. I'm guessing the Kendo is softer and can be bent into a short turn more easily than a Mantra.
https://www.skiessentials.com/2020-ski-test/category/mens-all-mountain/
What catches my eye, for what I'd be looking for to make rapid short turns, are Head Monster, Liberty Evolve, Rossi Experience, Volkl Kendo, and of course again the Mantra. I'm guessing the Kendo is softer and can be bent into a short turn more easily than a Mantra.
We'll just try yours.
Edit:
I think the shape is promising too
And, Renoun writes "very slight and short rocker, nearly full camber profile, flat rounded tail" Perfect for ice
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The Ikonic 84 and 84Ti have very little taper in the tip but not quite as squared off in the tail as a carving ski. So more carver biased than the Brahma(and more so than the Enforcer) but more playful than a carving ski in bumps and off piste. Deals online for both versions in the 177cm size for last years models.
I am an East coast skier who bought my self some Navigator 85 with LOOK Pivots this year to fill the role you described. You mentioned the the ability to do rapid slash turns as well. If you end up choosing one of the skis mentioned that loves to carve, you may want to consider detuning the tip and tail a little.
Puzzling. While not a big Brahma fan, I know too many very good skiers who ski the hell out of'em and can do exactly what you're saying they can't. I think the key is proper upper and lower body separation and moving effectively over the outside foot. That's not a critique of your skiing Karlo, as I have no idea how you ski. It's more a comment on the skiing of those (both male and female) who really make their Brahma's work as a narrow all mountain get it done ride.
On another note, the 'slash' turn sounds like a classic 70's 'check' turn... wind shield wiper with a little 'check' to create a platform for a quick 'up' move to intiate an edge change. It isn't a particularly effective technique with current skis, but was a staple for many advanced and 'expert' skiers back in the straight ski days.
All good thoughts, but detuning the tip and tail of a modern ski isn't something that should be necessary
Try a dynastar speedzone 4x4 82.
If this is the case, I would probably add a shorter pair of Faction Dictator 1.0s to the quiver. I think the narrower profile and a shorter length will give you the nimbleness and maneuverability you’re looking for. But with having the two sheets of metal, you won’t lose the stability, which I think you will lose going with the Chapter.
I don’t have much (i.e. any) experience with Icelandic skis, so can’t give you any advice on that front. And honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever read about them on this site. So I’d go out on a limb and say not many people here have much experience on them either.
Agree you shouldn’t need to detune the tip/tails and it reminds me that you should ALWAYS check base/edge flatness with any new ski. If your having trouble catching tip/tails or pivoting, it can sometimes mean you’re a bit edge high which is VERY common on tip/tails. Makes the skis feel longer and tougher to manage in tight spots.
I always check base flatness with every new ski I get and also run a mill bastard file dragged flat from tip/tail on an 45 degree angle to prevent bending the file and see if there are spots catching anywhere before I set base levels. VERY COMMON to be catchy on tip/tails. Drag the file with lighter pressure cleaning often till it doesn’t catch. Since I’ve starting doing this on new skis or after a base grind to flatten skis, I’ve never had the need to detune at all. This might be the issue some of you are facing on your “difficult to slash” skis.
btw-Don’t know how good your deals actually are but 2018 K2 Ikonic 84 with bindings online for $365 US or 2019 Bushwacker with Griffons for $440 US for example.
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We'll just try yours.
Edit:
I think the shape is promising too
View attachment 83025
And, Renoun writes "very slight and short rocker, nearly full camber profile, flat rounded tail" Perfect for ice
If your BSL is the same you sure can..(285) I've let several people demo them
I have Look Pivots on them.
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Do you have video of your rapid slash turns? Also are rapid slash turns the best way or the only way to ski bumps/ trees?
A lot of speculation about ski characteristics going on in this thread, based on "book knowledge." It's fun to do that, but don't assume it's a good way to choose a ski that's a fit for you, without a lot of demo sessions to put the facts and figures in a real world context.
I can't tell you how many times I've tried a ski that I expected to be "chocolate" only to find that it was really more like coffee or almond. Still brown, but not at all the same thing. One year Ski came out with a rave review of the Nordica Steadfast, characterizing it as light and quick and great in bumps. Lots of folks here agreed, more or less. When I got on it I felt like I was skiing a freaking two-by-four. Had the reverse experience, too, skiing "demanding" skis that I thought were a hoot.
Anyway, you get the point.
I can't tell you how many times I've tried a ski that I expected to be "chocolate" only to find that it was really more like coffee or almond. Still brown, but not at all the same thing. One year Ski came out with a rave review of the Nordica Steadfast, characterizing it as light and quick and great in bumps. Lots of folks here agreed, more or less. When I got on it I felt like I was skiing a freaking two-by-four. Had the reverse experience, too, skiing "demanding" skis that I thought were a hoot.
Anyway, you get the point.
The population of skiers more capable than I is vast
I was more referring to what I can do with the Brahmas relative to the other aforementioned skis. For my abilities, I can do very rapid short non-skidded turns with upper body straightlinging down a narrow corridor. I think, but maybe I’m wrong, it’s the tip shape. I know it’s not on account of length.
So, if it is tip shape (and probably also amount of rocker), then the Dynastar looks promising to me.
If your BSL is the same you sure can..(285) I've let several people demo them
Mine are 305.
I’ve been wanting to try a ski that’s not Newtonian. I’d love to blow past my higher mass friends.I initially looked at the Dictator 1.0s and emailed faction for their thoughts. They recommended the Chapter 1.0, stating: "Maybe you should try the Chapter 1.0. It is less stiff than the Dictator and has a smaller radius. The Dictator line is rather stiff and requires a lot of power to make the ski turn quickly." Which I could very well see, the 1.0 being almost identical to the 2.0 with just slightly less stiffens and faster edge to edge. Now if I went with that in 170cm would definitely not take as much input for me. On my 2.0s I have no problem with tight turns, except in the narrowest terrain when going slow/3d terrain.