Looking for a east coast all mountain ski

[Kodiak]

Background: Currently living in Upstate NY and primarily ski Whiteface or Gore MTN (occasional trip to Vermont or larger mountains). I am 5'8", 210 lbs., and would classify myself as an advance skier. I currently ski on a set of 2017 Faction Dictator 2.0s (95mm waist) in 183cm, I like most everything about this ski and love charging on them (especially when we get fresh snow, 3+ in. and they come alive). What I do not like is their ability to do rapid turns at slow speeds without massive input (super stiff), moguls over medium sized is hell, and skiing in glades is rough too (which i see as mogul skiing with obstacles). I like to carve too, but equally important is the ability to do rapid slash turns.

Bottom line, I am looking for an eastern all-mountain ski between 80-88 mm that is fun going fast (needs to be stable) or slow (ski with a lot of people that are intermediates), decent in larger moguls (does not have to be great), and generally lets me do rapid turns/carve at all speeds. What I do not want is a slalom ski, I like versatility in as many conditions as possible. This will be my hardpack/ice ski and for cruising with friends. I have narrowed it down to either the Liberty V82s in either 172 or 179cm length or the Faction Chapter 1.0s in either 170 or 178cm length. Any thoughts would be helpful, thanks.

 

[Jilly]

Paging @ADKmel !!

 

[GregK]

K2 Ikonic 84Ti(or non Ti if you want a bit lighter ski) or the Brahma 82 would both be perfect for you and better choices. Ikonic in between a slalom ski and an all mountain ski but can still carve with the best out there. Very versatile and have friends that have this ski for your uses. More stable and better in bumps than the Liberty V 82.

Haven’t been on the Faction but if you look at it’s flex, weight and flex it’s aimed more for versatile all mountain performance vs carving performance/edge grip. It’s got lots of taper which will help soft snow performance but lower edge grip and carving performance. Similar shape to your Dictator so same strengths/weaknesses.

Brahma 82 would have a bit more taper than the Ikonic 84 so a little better off piste but not QUITE as much of a carver. Brahmas are FANTASTIC moguls skis. Ikonic slightly more carver biased, Brahma slightly more all mountain biased. Both VERY versatile skis.

The Evolv 90 may be maybe the better mix for you in a Liberty ski. A similar mix of carver and all mountain ski. Better tip shape for bumps but still grips well on harder snow.

 

[Wendy]

Of the 2 skis you list, the V82 seems to suit your needs better than the Faction.

A perfect ski for the needs you’re describing, the Renoun Z90:checks all the boxes, and is a super fun carving machine with supernatural versatility. It’s expensive, but has a 100 day guarantee. Don’t like it, send it back. Renoun’s Atlas 80 may be a narrower, similar option, but I haven’t skied it.

 

[Lauren]

@Kodiak Of the two you mention, the Liberty sounds like the one that would check more of your boxes. At your size, I think you'll want a bit more umph than what the Faction can offer. If you're looking for something more groomer orientated, I would entertain GregK's suggestion of the K2 Ikonic, and I'd add in a recommendation for last year's Volkl RTM 84 (I haven't been on the new Deacon, so can't chime in on how big the differences are). If you want something that is compliant on groomers, but with a bit more off-piste bias, I'd entertain the thought of a Volkl Kendo in the 177 length.

 

[Marker]

Head Monster 83 or 88? I demoed the 88 at 177 cm and thought it was almost there for me at 230 lb. They didn't have the 184 cm.

 

[Josh Matta]

You ski back and do huge edging moves to turn instead of low angle smooth progressive moves, a narrow softer ski will make what you do easier but will not change the fundamental flaw.

Stay away from the liberty v series because the tip can spear in 3d terrain and their tip design is a fatal flaw for off groomer skiing. Bliazzard bushwacker would be my pick for you and I’d stay away from Brahma.

 

[noggin]

I hate to give a plug for another ski,outside of your list, but based on what you are describing I really think you should give the Salomon S-Force Bold a test drive. There is a lot a great info throughout this site about this "sleeper ski."
I tried this ski bought it on the spot and it replaced my Nordica Enforcer 93 as my daily driver here in the east for all the reasons you list in your post.

Good luck

 

[GregK]

Agree with @Josh Matta with the V series tip splay issue which would be scary in thick high crud etc. that’s why the Evolv with a higher splay is better.
Also agree with the Bushwacker being a fantastic mogul ski that’s more forgiving than the Brahma but at 210 lbs would be fine with a Brahma too if you want a bit more stability.

 

[DocGKR]

I'd also consider: Nordica Enforcer 88's, Renoun Atlas 80, Brahama 82 or 88, Fischer RC One GT in 82 or 86, K2 Ikonic 84, Rossi Experience 84 or 88, Stockli Laser AR 83, Volkl Deacon 80 or Kendo 88.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Reasonable priced:
Brahma 82 - Similar to latigo below
New old stock Latigo (still exist on ebay) it's my go-to slarve or carve ski for toodling around with family but it can still grip it and rip it.
Head VShape V8 - Narrower, but turny fun on piste and initiates easy, less bump capable

I crap money options
Stockli Laser AX
Stockli Laser AR
DPS Alchemist 82

 

[Kodiak]

WOW! thanks for all the quick replies and your personal insights.

You all bring up good points and may be wondering between the two skis I am looking at. Basically price, I can get Liberty, Faction, Icelantic, & Fischer skis between 40-60% off. Plus I like supporting the smaller companies and helping bring more competition in, which will bring better products and lower prices into the industry.

The Chapter 1.0 is the same exact shape of the Dictator series, just with no metal, and a full popular core. So, not as stiff and more forgiving. I have considered the Brahama and the enforcers.

A little more background: I have skied the Salomon X Drive FS 8.0s in 176 cm and enjoyed. And some GS Heads which I did not like, just did not have the same feel. Looking for something in the 16-18m turn radius or smaller.

Anything Fischer makes in the category?

 

[DocGKR]

With Fischer, both the Fischer RC One GT in 82 or 86 mm waists appear to offer what you want.

If you want to support a small company, the Renoun Atlas 80 is superb and offers all the characteristics you desired.

In addition, the Nordica Enforcer 88's, as well as Blizzard Brahama 82 or 88 would be fantastic for your needs.

 

[ADKmel]

Hi, another Upstate ADK'r here I'm back to Gore/Whiteface this year (grew up there)

I LOVE MY Renoun Z-90's they are amazing. The z-90's have been my 1 Ski quiver for 2yrs now. I took to Gore in 10" of fresh w/ice inbetween the bumps and they work flawlessly! Yes $$ but way worth it IMO. All my other skis are collecting dust. They do have a pro day, check their site.

I also Demo'd w/the Pugs LIBERTY 76's They are a really sweet ski I know you want wider but the liberty impressed me on the frozen cord at Mammoth in May and were Amazing in the deep Spring Corn at Mammoth and easy quick turning. I was shocked I was on a 76! I skied them 2 days because they were so much fun in the spring snow!
I had no problem in thick snow except 1 Ungroomed trail with 2FT Of slush snow (@Philpug detour LOL) that snow just piled up when trying to turn.it was a trail that no one had skied or groomed in a while, we found out why.. My old knees can't take tip shake or pushing piles around. Both Z-90's and Liberty 76 worked great for me.

Not sure where you are, Alpin haus has set me up w/demo's before to take out for a day
and they put on a Free demo day at my home bump Royal Mt in Caroga during Presidents Week.

Maybe I'll see you at Gore.

 

[trailtrimmer]

The Chapter 1.0 is the same exact shape of the Dictator series, just with no metal, and a full popular core. So, not as stiff and more forgiving. I have considered the Brahama and the enforcers.

How much dampening do you like and will you want it to have at least a bit of high speed prowess? If this is only going to be a family cruiser, then the Nordica Navigator 80, Head Monster 83 X both come into play with no metal in the layup. They won't lock into ice like a bear trap, but they will do moguls and low to medium speeds on groomers all day long, but they have a top end for sure. On paper, the Scott Black Majic splits the difference, though I've never ridden a set. The Atomic Vantage 75 and 80 CTI both work great for initiating at slower speeds and linking turns on groomers and can do ok in moguls. They can be had with a system binding for under $450 too.

Highly recommend staying in the mid 70's to low 80's in width, noodling around at low edge angles on wide skis is tiring and hard on the joints. I had Brahmas, Kendos, Mantras, stormriders, etc. They were all a whole lot of work at slow speeds and just the wrong tool for groomed hardpack. My northern Michigan lake effect snow belt daily drivers are the Latigo, Head Titan, and DPS Cassair 82 with metal. With a 1/2 tune, the Titan is actually really easy to run at slow speeds yet can still tip and rip, but it's not a great mogul ski thanks the the tip design. The Latigo is more playful but will lock in and I'm yet to have the DPS out in anything but spring snow so I can't fully comment, but it's like a more compliant Latigo with a longer radius and less poppy feeling.

My conditions are groomed hard pack to 12" of fresh turning to hard pack and I rarely break out the powder skis. Also, I no longer own anything between 82MM and 107MM under foot, they were simply a lackluster compromise that didn't excel in powder and were too much work and joint pain on groomers even if they were top shelf models. Even when I travel west I only take a 78-80mm and a Nordica Vagabond for powder. Looking to switch out the Vagabond for something a little more playful.

 

[karlo]

I like my Brahmas (88). They carve bulletproof ice. They are nblevin moguls, even those that are, again, bulletproof ice. They carve nice slow turns if one likes. They can charge down a groomer and Eastern powder with short or medium turns.

Don’t know what a rapid slash turn is. But they are capable of very rapid turns.

 

[Tony S]

What I do not like is their ability to do rapid turns at slow speeds without massive input (super stiff),

At 210lbs if you are finding a ski too stiff it's because they are too long for you. My point is that when you look at another, narrower, pair, don't go just by your weight; factor in your height, too. What that means, since you will be shortening-up on length, is that you probably don't want to go with an easy flexing ski like a Bushwacker. They won't give you the grip you're seeking. Stay with a "big boy" ski. Just don't size up. My two cents.

Paging @TheArchitect

 

[Kodiak]

At 210lbs if you are finding a ski too stiff it's because they are too long for you. My point is that when you look at another, narrower, pair, don't go just by your weight; factor in your height, too. What that means, since you will be shortening-up on length, is that you probably don't want to go with an easy flexing ski like a Bushwacker. They won't give you the grip you're seeking. Stay with a "big boy" ski. Just don't size up. My two cents.

Paging @TheArchitect

Thanks, I don't find my Dictators too stiff, they just take a lot of input at slow speeds to get good feedback from them. Which any review of them states, I will still ski them, especially anytime there is fresh powder and with people who ski my style. They are brilliant for ripping down the mountain. Just with a family now I am looking for something shorter, more nimble, and not always wanting to charge. I compare it to riding a thoroughbred vs quarter horse, which not saying the quarter horse is a slouch just more nimble.

 

[Kodiak]

I like my Brahmas (88). They carve bulletproof ice. They are nblevin moguls, even those that are, again, bulletproof ice. They carve nice slow turns if one likes. They can charge down a groomer and Eastern powder with short or medium turns.

Don’t know what a rapid slash turn is. But they are capable of very rapid turns.

My ski vernacular might not be 100% right. I considered the brahmas.

 

[Kodiak]

How much dampening do you like and will you want it to have at least a bit of high speed prowess? If this is only going to be a family cruiser, then the Nordica Navigator 80, Head Monster 83 X both come into play with no metal in the layup. They won't lock into ice like a bear trap, but they will do moguls and low to medium speeds on groomers all day long, but they have a top end for sure. On paper, the Scott Black Majic splits the difference, though I've never ridden a set. The Atomic Vantage 75 and 80 CTI both work great for initiating at slower speeds and linking turns on groomers and can do ok in moguls. They can be had with a system binding for under $450 too.

Highly recommend staying in the mid 70's to low 80's in width, noodling around at low edge angles on wide skis is tiring and hard on the joints. I had Brahmas, Kendos, Mantras, stormriders, etc. They were all a whole lot of work at slow speeds and just the wrong tool for groomed hardpack. My northern Michigan lake effect snow belt daily drivers are the Latigo, Head Titan, and DPS Cassair 82 with metal. With a 1/2 tune, the Titan is actually really easy to run at slow speeds yet can still tip and rip, but it's not a great mogul ski thanks the the tip design. The Latigo is more playful but will lock in and I'm yet to have the DPS out in anything but spring snow so I can't fully comment, but it's like a more compliant Latigo with a longer radius and less poppy feeling.

My conditions are groomed hard pack to 12" of fresh turning to hard pack and I rarely break out the powder skis. Also, I no longer own anything between 82MM and 107MM under foot, they were simply a lackluster compromise that didn't excel in powder and were too much work and joint pain on groomers even if they were top shelf models. Even when I travel west I only take a 78-80mm and a Nordica Vagabond for powder. Looking to switch out the Vagabond for something a little more playful.

Thanks, probably best to stay on the narrower waist side, deal with similar snow here. I want a best of both worlds, does not need to be super-damp, but those moments I cut loose from family cruising I want to feel stable and in control.