Individual Review Long-Term Review: Salomon Shift Binding

[Brock Tice]

Got them all mounted, can't wait to try them out.

 

[Brock Tice]

I am finding the touring lever extremely difficult to lock in the up position fully. I seem to recall reading this somewhere but I don't see it in this thread. Do they break in?

 

[Mike Rogers]

I am finding the touring lever extremely difficult to lock in the up position fully. I seem to recall reading this somewhere but I don't see it in this thread. Do they break in?

Mine broke in. It helps to pull it up with your pole grip. Just hook the pole under the lever.

 

[Brock Tice]

Mine broke in. It helps to pull it up with your pole grip. Just hook the pole under the lever.

I don't think I can pull that hard with my pole grip! Once it breaks in that will probably be better. I will try squeezing the wings too as described earlier in this thread.

 

[ScottB]

I haven't found my lever getting any easier, but I haven't used it all that much. I just leave it in the first position and don't bother with the locked position. Squeezing the wings works good for the transition.

 

[Philpug]

We have two pair of skis mounted with Shifts if someone in the Tahoe basin wants to get out on them to write a review. Atomic Backland 107 189cm and Renoun Citadel 106 178cm.

 

[Brock Tice]

I took my new Shifts out over the past couple of days, made a few discoveries.

1. The levers are indeed breaking in to lock into walk mode.

2. My AFDs moved as described by others. It wasn't an issue the first day, but I had very little downhill time on them. Today, about halfway into my first run, I felt my skis "clicking" and figured out that my toes were getting vertical play. I readjusted them in the field (thanks metal wallet card with tools) and had no problems the rest of the day. I can't say I'm an experienced binding tech, but I noticed they acted kind of weird when I was adjusting the AFDs on the bench. For future adjustments I'll make sure to click in and stomp on them on the rug a few times.

I also can't say I'm an experienced reviewer or AT guy, but I felt fully confident on the downhills once the AFDs were reset correctly, and didn't notice any difference in feel from normal alpine bindings. After getting comfortable with the new skis they're mounted on, I hit a bunch of double black Taos terrain without issue. When going uphill, they felt good too, just like the Dynafits I learned on.

I do wish they had a more flat minimum angle for traversing, but 2 and 10 degrees of climb aid worked fine for the in-bounds uphill I did. I found that the 10 degree assist was easier to flip up with my pole handle than the Dynafits I have used. Switching modes was pretty easy though I haven't figured out a way to do it reliably with mittens on. Instead I pull my hands out in my glove liners if it's cold.

Finally, I noticed some snow accumulated between the AFD and the toe piece wings, but under the toe of the boot. That should be empty space though and didn't cause any problems.

 

[Brock Tice]

I went on my first real backcountry tour yesterday with the shifts, I'm getting better at getting my toes into them for walk mode. I did have the brake deployment problem four times in two hours of uphill. Most of the time I don't want to futz with manually locking the brakes, so I didn't, but AFAICT when I did lift up on the brakes first and then also stomp on them pretty good they didn't unlock. It may have been related to banging the brakes against the other ski, I'm still working on my technique.

 

[ScottB]

2. My AFDs moved as described by others. It wasn't an issue the first day, but I had very little downhill time on them. Today, about halfway into my first run, I felt my skis "clicking" and figured out that my toes were getting vertical play. I readjusted them in the field (thanks metal wallet card with tools) and had no problems the rest of the day. I can't say I'm an experienced binding tech, but I noticed they acted kind of weird when I was adjusting the AFDs on the bench. For future adjustments I'll make sure to click in and stomp on them on the rug a few times.

I adjusted my AFD's the other day for a different pair of boots. Mine have never moved from the shop setting, which is a good thing. When adjusting them they acted weird too. I think I figured out what is going on. It seems the adjustment screw is like an off center cam. As you turn it 360 deg, there is a high spot and then it goes back to a lower spot. The AFD goes up and up till you get to the high spot, and then it stays there, even though you go past the high spot on the screw. If you push on it by hand, it goes back down some. It is not spring loaded. As you do multiple turns on the screw, the high spot keeps getting higher and higher along with the low spot.

Bottom line, after adjusting it, push it back down by hand to see if it moves. If it goes back down, keep turning the screw in to raise it (or lower as the case maybe). Once you have it very close to the final setting, then you are down to the final turn of adjustment. Make the adjustment and press down on the boot (or the afd) and makes sure it doesn't move. You should be good from there.

Ideally, you would want to end up with the screw on a low spot, so the afd can never get lower. I didn't get that fussy with it and once I got the right clearance and it didn't move down anymore when pressing on it, I stopped.

 

[ScottB]

I was just checking my shift bindings tonight. I might get out tomorrow for a ski day. I want to use my Alpine boots in my shift bindings, instead of my touring boots. I adjusted the AFD a few weeks ago for the Alpine boots. After reading this post, I took another look and found out I screwed up the adjustment. I think its partly me and partly the binding. I will take a picture and repost, but let me describe what I found.

There is a black plastic pad on the toe piece, just under the white knob that says ski on it. If the AFD is set for a touring sole, its is very far down. When you put an alpine sole boot in the binding, the toe is so thin it can drop down under the black plastic pad and be held in place by the pad. It should be held in by the wings, but when I adjusted it the first time for the Alpine boots (incorrectly), there was a huge gap between the toe and the wings. It felt like the boot was in place securely, but it might pop out from below the black pad (which is not supposed to hold down a toe) and then be loose and clicking in the binding.

The solution is to crank the AFD up a lot before putting in the Alpine boot so the AFD keeps the toe up where it belongs. Then adjust it for the proper gap and it should be good. I was surprised how much I had to crank up the AFD, but I believe I have it correct now. Still need to push down on the AFD after adjusting to make sure it doesn't move, this is what I was talking about in my previous post.

I will put up some pic's and it will be clear what I am talking about. If you adjust the AFD yourself, don't make the mistake I did, it will lead to the boot being loose in the toe and clicking up and down.

 

[ScottB]

here is an article that covers all the issues people have experienced with the new shift bindings. this talks about the toe afd adjustment and how to do it properly. I think the take away is the shifts are a little more complicated to set up properly and there are pitfalls. once properly setup they work well.

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/r...bindings-Fritschi-Tecton-Salomon-Atomic-Shift

 

[James]

here is an article that covers all the issues people have experienced with the new shift bindings. this talks about the toe afd adjustment and how to do it properly. I think the take away is the shifts are a little more complicated to set up properly and there are pitfalls. once properly setup they work well.

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/r...bindings-Fritschi-Tecton-Salomon-Atomic-Shift

What approach have you used for the afd adjustment and forward pressure settings? Seems like there's some variation to what the factory manual recommends.

 

[ScottB]

For the AFD, if you go from a WTR sole to an Alpine sole (my Atomic Hawx XTD to Lange RS140) you have to crank the AFD way up. It takes a couple dozen turns on the screw. As said in the article, its a stair step ramp you are climbing, so one turn equals one step. You have to keep pushing down on the toe of the boot to make the AFD go back down and sit on the step it just popped over. I set it to close to 0 gap and took the boot in/out of the binding a couple of times to make sure it didn't move anymore. The mistake is turning the screw, watching the AFD move up, then not pushing back down on the AFD or boot toe to make sure its seated. You also don't think it takes so many turns? I wondered if it was moving at all at first, but it was in stair step jumps. Would have been better if the AFD just slid up and down with the screw threads, like an AAttack13 adjustable AFD. The screw is on the side of the AFD rather than in front of it, so I guess its a different mechanism.

The forward pressure should be more clear too. I plan to set the rear or back edge of the molded in rectangle inline with the arrows on the binding. Right now I set the metal slider flush with the plastic housing. The molded rectangle is not quite inline with the arrows. The rectangle is pretty thick too, so do you use the front edge, middle, or rear edge. I figure more forward pressure equals fewer pre-releases so I am going with rear edge of rectangle inline with arrows on housing. This is pretty easy to set with the adjustment screw. I don't think the manual is correct showing the metal face flush with the plastic face. That will be lighter forward pressure and less hold.

To me the worst issue is if you have the AFD adjusted for an WTR or touring sole (AFD way down) and then put your alpine boot in the binding, the toe hooks under a plastic block on the toe piece and it feel like its in properly. It is not, although its not obvious its not. This throws the forward pressure off and the toe height off. I skied one day like that and didn't realize it. I guess I was easy on the binding that day. I bet that is what is causing so many issues for people. If your boot pops up past the plastic block,(which is not designed to hold the boot from coming up) it will be flopping around in the toe and you will pre-release for sure. Once all is set correctly and the wings of the toe piece are properly holding your boot in, all is good to go.

If the shop sets things up properly and you only have one pair of boots, there shouldn't be any issues. People like me that change boots (I bought the binding because it allows me to do that) and have to adjust it for the different pair can run into issues until you get all the adjustments down pat. The manual does say to bring it into the shop if adjusting for different soles, but lets be real here, I can change boots daily, so I am not running to the shop all the time. I am glad I found the write up to put all my questions to rest.

 

[Slim]

My wife had the exact issue @ScottB describes: with the boot’s toe lip catching under that ridge, and the AfD set way to low. Once I figured that out, and set the AfD to proper height, it has been developing play every day , I suspect it’s the stair step issue you describe.

I will try the “push down on boot” technique for adjusting you describe, thanks a lot!