Individual Review Long-Term Review: 2017-18 Head Rally for an Intermediate

[surfsnowgirl]

You are so right. My ski happy length ranges from 163-170ish depending on the ski. I've absolutely found I prefer my carver types of skis to be on the lower end of my range. However, it took some experimentation on my part to fully embrace this. I'm a cautious skier as well and am not a lightweight so I've been able to get away with skiing certain skis because I have the length strength. It took some experimentation to figure out what is my happy length and it's definitely not absolute as different skis have different properties and ski differently. I used to be very hung up on length and have my flat out length I liked and never varied. I'm more flexible these days

 

[firebanex]

View attachment 38841
But then it snowed ... and that was my biggest surprise. It was an overnight drop of a few inches on top of mostly hard snow and, in some areas, ice. The runs were groomed before the snowfall. I had expected to go to the car and pick up the wider Dynastars in those conditions, but to my surprise, I felt a lot of confidence on the Heads. For one thing, if you can set an edge (which is easy on these skis), going through the variable chunky snow is a pleasure: you simply cut through it. Also, in soft, small bumps, these were ton of fun. They are light but firm, and easy to pivot, so you can rotate over a bump and then set a solid edge and make a carved turn. Those were the conditions where I liked them the most.

I went with the Titans over the Rallys last year because the quality of grooming at my local areas is decent, but we don't get enough snow to run actual snowcats for grooming.. so I needed it to be a tad wider. Anyways, this paragraph is what surprised me the most about the Titans I got for last season, I was simply not expecting them to handle cut up snow so well. I've been very happy and pleased with the Titans and plan to keep them for quite some time.

On sizing I'm 6' tall and got the Titan's in 177cm, I somewhat wish I had sized down to the 170's for the slightly quicker turning radius. Otherwise they are everything I was looking for in this kind of ski, damp, heavy, fantastic edges, and fast. They definitely will not let you ski lazy, they will quickly fight you and punish you for not being on top of them. But if you are on top of they they are brilliant and fun to ski, it feels like they just sing on my feet and gobble up the turns

 

[Mendieta]

Update: the 2019 ski doesn't look to have been redesigned. Here is a wonderful review by @SkiEssentials , and here are my comments.

In short, we are on the same page


Here is a lovely video from their review, for fun, but I recommend going ahead and reading it all. Great writing.

 

[Robert Lutczyk]

Thanks for the great info Mendieta. I have a related question, I am in a similar situation as you, advancing intermediate, I have the Atomic Vantage 90 CTI in 176cm as my all mountain ski (and only Ski). I love to carve and would like to improve. So adding a second, more carving oriented ski seems to make sense. I am 6 feet tall but I only weigh in at 145lbs. So for the Rally/Titan I wonder what the appropriate size would be. I see a lot of recommendations for the 170cm for people my length but weighing a good 40-50lbs more than me. Should I be considering the 163cm?

Any input would be highly appreciated.

 

[Mendieta]

Thanks for the great info Mendieta. I have a related question, I am in a similar situation as you, advancing intermediate, I have the Atomic Vantage 90 CTI in 176cm as my all mountain ski (and only Ski). I love to carve and would like to improve. So adding a second, more carving oriented ski seems to make sense. I am 6 feet tall but I only weigh in at 145lbs. So for the Rally/Titan I wonder what the appropriate size would be. I see a lot of recommendations for the 170cm for people my length but weighing a good 40-50lbs more than me. Should I be considering the 163cm?

Any input would be highly appreciated.

Yes, I think you are on the right track. It seems to me like you should be fine with the 170, and the extra length vs the 163 will give you more float on variable snow. Also, I am considering the fact that you are skiing a Vantage CTI in 176cm, and it doesn't seem to be a soft ski by any means. I will repeat the same advice that @Philpug gave me when I was shopping for a carver: since you already have a 90mm, you might want to go for the Rally (mid 70's) or even narrower (Magnum, low 70's), to have more differentiation in your quiver. When I did my research, there was a lot of consensus that the Rally strikes a good balance between carving power and versatility. I couldn't be happier with the purchase.

As for bending it, it seems like the real trick is to create deeper (higher) edging angles. And carry some momentum. I am working on all this. So, in short, I would prefer if people who know a lot more about gear would weigh in, but I think 170cm would be optimal for you.

Best luck with your decision! I'm pumped for you!

 

[Robert Lutczyk]

Thanks Mendieta, I do agree that the Rally seems to make more sense from a width perspective seeing as this would be a dedicated carving ski. But the size has me scratching my head. 163cm feels very very short and 170cm seems to be used by people much heavier than me. Maybe I am simply between sizes in this one.

I have been considering the new Head V8 as an alternative as well. That one seems softer so 170cm might be better. It’s new for this year though so more expensive than last years supershape. Atomic Vantage X 80/83 CTI look to be another possibility, I think they are the more carving oriented siblings to my existing ski. Last one I have been eying is the Stockli Laser AX in 167cm, but it’s just so expensive

Maybe @Philpug can weigh in with his massive library of knowledge

 

[Philpug]

Thanks Mendieta, I do agree that the Rally seems to make more sense from a width perspective seeing as this would be a dedicated carving ski. But the size has me scratching my head. 163cm feels very very short and 170cm seems to be used by people much heavier than me. Maybe I am simply between sizes in this one.

I have been considering the new Head V8 as an alternative as well. That one seems softer so 170cm might be better. It’s new for this year though so more expensive than last years supershape. Atomic Vantage X 80/83 CTI look to be another possibility, I think they are the more carving oriented siblings to my existing ski. Last one I have been eying is the Stockli Laser AX in 167cm, but it’s just so expensive

Maybe @Philpug can weigh in with his massive library of knowledge

I think you would be happier on the 170 for your size, I understand your thoguht that you might be inbetween sizes, if so, I would stronngh suggest the all new Head V8 s a consideration...

Head V-Shape V8
Dimensions: 130-75-112
Radius: 13.2m@170cm
Sizes: 149, 156, 163, 170, 177
Size tested: 170
Design: All New

Andy Mink: The all-new Head V8 should be a force in the intermediate to advanced market. With a shape similar to the very successful Supershape series, the V8 is a carving machine; at the same time, it is not as demanding as its iBrethren. It is one of those skis capable of giving more when pressed, but it doesn’t need to be skied hard to perform well. It easily makes tight or wide turns and, with a little tail and tip rise, can be pushed around as the snow softens. The rounded tail will not beat you up in the bumps.

Filling the next-to-top spot in the V-Shape series (V2 through V10), the V8 will appeal to those advancing skiers who stay mainly on the groomers but may venture a little onto the shoulders of the runs. Like the omnipotent V8 engine, this V8 can be used to cruise or rip, your choice.

• Who is it for? Intermediate to advanced skiers looking for near-iPerformance at a friendlier price point.
• Who is it not for? The skier who spends most of the day in the bumps, trees, or pow.
• Intermediate tip: The V8 is a great ski for those who want to hone their carving skills but don't want to carve all the time.

Philpug: The V8 was the SST (Surprise Ski of the Test) for me. At 76 mm underfoot in the reference 170 size, it could be the perfect instructor's ski. Narrow enough to be quick edge to edge. Soft enough to allow the skier to ease into a turn at a slow speed. Stable enough to let 'er run when needed. So, if you are looking at a Supershape but feel like you just don’t need all that power, the V8 could be the one.

• Who is it for? Wannabe instructors that want but don’t need nth-degree precision.
• Who is it not for? Bigger or stronger skiers who want to charge. No worries, there is the i.Titan.
• Insider tip: Err on the short side.

 

[wallyk]

@Philpug and/or anyone else here......are the Head V8's considered a recreational slalom ski? Does the V8 have a cracked edge like the older recreational slalom skis used to have? Does this category, recreational slalom, of skis still exist or am "I livin in the past man???!!!"

 

[Robert Lutczyk]

Thanks @Philpug makes sense. Any thoughts on the alternatives I listed?

 

[Philpug]

Thanks @Philpug makes sense. Any thoughts on the alternatives I listed?

I like all three. I’d suggest the AX in a 174 though.

 

[Robert Lutczyk]

I like all three. I’d suggest the AX in a 174 though.

Really @Philpug that surprises me. I have got recommendation for the 168cm and seen some people state that these ski long. You think I could manage the 175cm weighing 150lbs? I am starting to lean towards the AX.

Big thanks for the input

 

[Philpug]

Really @Philpug that surprises me. I have got recommendation for the 168cm and seen some people state that these ski long. You think I could manage the 175cm weighing 150lbs? I am starting to lean towards the AX.

Big thanks for the input

Because you are 6' and that with the gradual tip of AX...it skis a bit of the short side.

 

[Mendieta]

Really @Philpug that surprises me. I have got recommendation for the 168cm and seen some people state that these ski long. You think I could manage the 175cm weighing 150lbs? I am starting to lean towards the AX.

I heard great things about the AX. Regarding length:

Because you are 6' and that with the gradual tip of AX...it skis a bit of the short side.

@Robert Lutczyk : if you look at the standard sizing recommendation, it is based on skier's height. "Expert: top of the head, beginner to the chin, intermediates nose level". There is a very simple reason for this: the ski becomes and extension on your body, so its dimensions should scale with your body linear dimensions. There is a lot to say about that "ski rental shop" oversimplification. Things like how long a ski skis, like you were suggesting above. But it still holds.

The physics of the interaction are extremely complex. But at a very basic level, your leverage on the skis (both for-aft and lateral) depends not just on your mass, but also the height of your center of mass.

Your worry about body weight can be turned around to your advantage. A ski like the Rally will give you plenty of float, and you can still bend it if your technique is there. You need a high enough edge angle and some speed. This is where a ski like the V8 could be particularly handy. It is reported to become alive at lower speeds (I had a long chat with @Andy Mink , who skied both). Not sure how the AX compares in that sense.

 

[Robert Lutczyk]

@Philpug and @Mendieta thank you both for the responses. And Mendieta, big thanks for your thoughtful explanation. It makes total sense, sizing can never be simplified to just one parameter like weight. Is a function of weight, height, particular ski and intended use. This is why it’s so great to have a community forum like this one where experienced people can advise!

Looks pretty clear that a Rally in 170cm would be a great tool for what I am looking for. The more I read about the Laser AX the more I think it might overalap just a tad too much with my Atomic Vantage 90 CTI. I am sure they are plenty different but both are described as somewhat relaxed all mountain skis that are capable carvers. I am looking for something very carving oriented to hone in my skill when I have the energy to focus, practice and push it. I think the Laser SC might actually correspond better to the Rally in the Stockli lineup. Looking more into the SC now and they have it in the same 170cm size as the rally

Once again, big thanks.

 

[Tony S]

Does the V8 have a cracked edge like the older recreational slalom skis used to have?

You mean in, like, 1980? Maybe I missed a few eras. If so, apologies.

 

[markojp]

@Philpug and/or anyone else here......are the Head V8's considered a recreational slalom ski? Does the V8 have a cracked edge like the older recreational slalom skis used to have? Does this category, recreational slalom, of skis still exist or am "I livin in the past man???!!!"

You're living in the past... kind of. FWIW, I had two pair of Rossi ST race room skis with cracked edges....205's. Those were for SL. SL is now skied on 165sm skis, no cracked edges. I wish I had the current SL skis to ski back in the day, even if everyone laughed at me. The V8 is a very fun, lively short radius ski. It's not intended to be a rec SL ski. Rec SL skis are typically 'non-FIS' and are softer with a bit tighter turn radius than a current FIS race ski. That said, the rec skis are often oddly less stable and harder to ski than a full FIS SL if you're a strong skier with current technical skills. The more current equivallent to yesterday's rec SL would be a non-FIS 18-22m GS ski. And busting out the 'that said' again, the true 'rec SL ski' would be more like a nice, strong 88-90mm ski. Anyhow....

 

[Mendieta]

Tune update! Before this season I went from a 1/2 tune, into a 1/3 tune. The former is the factory tune, the latter is a more aggressive tune with 1 degree at the base and three degrees on the side.

How does it feel like? More grabby, as expected. If I had to put it in one sentence, I would say that the ski gains in carving abilities and loses some of its versatility.

What would I recommend to an intermediate skier: ski the factory tune and develop skills as it is. At some point, once it feels like the ski is a lot of fun and you are confident on it, you might want to consider a more "race like" type of tune, but keep in mind that it will be more of a handful in bumps and anywhere that requires sudden short turns, pivoting, etc. In other words, going to 3 degrees or more on the side will make it harder to ski, and more rewarding when you are skiing well. It can very easily push it beyond your capabilities, especially at the beginning.

The details.I have been skiing the 3 degrees for 5 days now. All early season. First three days on mild runs with man made snow, the last two on top to bottom runs with natural snow. The skis clearly have a firmer grip while carving. Which inspires confidence and encourages me to tip them a little more, but I have always been "catching edges" and recovering more than before the tune change.

Bumps are definitely more of a handful. The ski forces more to stay on top of them so I can flatten them when needed to pivot. On the flip side, I can control speed better when I can use the edges. But the ski is overall less forgiving, which I knew going on, and I am fine with that.

Snow has been better than usual this early season, in terms of quality. Sugar Bowl, Friday, had lots of fresh snow still around in gladed areas and some of the less trafficked bowls. And the ski was great on fresh, soft, natural snow. You couldn't tell the tune difference. Here is an example from Friday:

In short, I have to thank all of you one more time for suggesting that I stay on the factory tune for a while. Great decision. Do I like the new one? Given my goals, yes. It is rewarding my less sucky turns, and forcing me to do better when I am not in balance. It's all good.

 

[Mendieta]

but I have always been "catching edges" and recovering more than before the tune change.

Errata: I didn't mean to say "always". I am catching edges and recovering from that more often than before, but by no means is this happening constantly.

 

[Mendieta]

Another update. I moved the bindings 1 notch (8mm) forward. This worked great for me! It is super easy to do in these skis. And easy go back if needed. But I am not going back. I had a blast! (see here, and here). The skis feel now a little more versatile. Easier to turn, easier to transition, easier to pivot. Basically, I seem to be more centered on the ski. The drawback is that the tails can wash a little more easily, but it was an overall great win.

 

[eok]

Another update. I moved the bindings 1 notch (8mm) forward. This worked great for me! It is super easy to do in these skis. And easy go back if needed. But I am not going back. I had a blast! (see here, and here). The skis feel now a little more versatile. Easier to turn, easier to transition, easier to pivot. Basically, I seem to be more centered on the ski. The drawback is that the tails can wash a little more easily, but it was an overall great win.

I'm curious: what's your boot sole length? Phil - or somebody else - can chime in here, but I believe longer boot sole lengths can affect ski feel. Probably because the longer sole effectively places the ball-of-foot a bit further back - and perhaps making the ski's sweet spot a little harder to access.

I have Raptor RS 140s, 28.5 mondo size, and around 325 sole length. I too tested skiing Rallys and Titans with the bindings moved forward a bit. I found I liked them better set 1 to 2 clicks forward. I haven't noticed any increased tendency for tail washout - but I'm not an 11 10ths skier either.