Lifting inside ski from the snow as a way to test balance

[JKinBC-NC]

The ability to lift the inside ski at any point in the turn is an excellent way to check if one is balanced. If the skier is in balance, a very small increase in counter balance will occur as the skier lifts the inside ski off of the snow during a turn. If the skier is not in balance, either they will not be able to lift the inside ski, they will fall to the inside when lifting the inside foot, or they will have to make a gross movement elsewhere in the body to find balance on the outside ski.

This test of balance is not the same as skiing every turn with 100/0 distribution. It is a test so that one can observe the other movements of the skier as they lift the inside ski off of the snow during the turn. This helps to show whether the skier is in balance or is dependent on the inside ski for stability to keep from falling to the inside.

If the following skier was to lift her/his inside leg at any part of the turn from which this screenshot was taken, s/he would either fall over or need to make a gross movement elsewhere in the body in an attempt to find balance. This skier is dependent on the inside leg for stability and is not skiing in balance:

The next skier is skiing in balance. Clearly s/he is not skiing with 100/0 distribution at the moment of this screenshot. (Snow spray off of inside ski)
If s/he was to lift the inside ski off of the snow, a very small addition of counter balance is all that would be required to continue to stay in balance.

 

[Henry]

JK, lifting just the tail of the inside ski momentarily an inch or so off the snow, then bringing it back down, is a good test for exactly what you describe. When some people lift the whole ski they put themselves into the back seat. Lifting just the tail is a good way to maintain fore & aft balance.

 

[JKinBC-NC]

JK, lifting just the tail of the inside ski momentarily an inch or so off the snow, then bringing it back down, is a good test for exactly what you describe. When some people lift the whole ski they put themselves into the back seat. Lifting just the tail is a good way to maintain fore & aft balance.

All the more reason to focus on pulling back the inside foot throughout the turn!

 

[dbostedo]

JK, lifting just the tail of the inside ski momentarily an inch or so off the snow, then bringing it back down, is a good test for exactly what you describe. When some people lift the whole ski they put themselves into the back seat. Lifting just the tail is a good way to maintain fore & aft balance.

I frequently do "javelin turns" like that - keeping the tail up throughout the turn - to get myself feeling balanced since I tend to be backseat.

...This skier is dependent on the inside leg for stability and is not skiing in balance....

Unless they intended to weight the inside ski. Although a bit of A-frame might mean they didn't intend to. We did drills trying to put even weight on inside and outside skis recently in Taos - it was an interesting feeling. I've also tried to make inside ski only turns with the outside ski lifted - but haven't been very successful yet.

...a very small addition of counter balance is all that would be required...

You mean a bit more angulation? Which would move them outside to balance more on the outside ski?

 

[johnnyvw]

For me, making turns left and right on one leg at a time was an excellent drill to get better balanced.

 

[Mike King]

I frequently do "javelin turns" like that - keeping the tail up throughout the turn - to get myself feeling balanced since I tend to be backseat.

@dbostedo, I think you mean Stork turns. In a Javelin turn, you steer the outside ski under the tip of the lifted inside ski. That wouldn't have a good result if the inside ski tip were to be left on the snow...

Stork turn:


Javelin turn

 

[dbostedo]

@dbostedo, I think you mean Stork turns. In a Javelin turn, you steer the outside ski under the tip of the lifted inside ski. That wouldn't have a good result if the inside ski tip were to be left on the snow...

Stork turn:


Javelin turn

Thanks... I knew that! I always seem to get those backwards.

 

[JKinBC-NC]

I frequently do "javelin turns" like that - keeping the tail up throughout the turn - to get myself feeling balanced since I tend to be backseat.

Skiing on one ski (100/0) distribution throughout the turn can sometimes be a good thing to do. It's easy to start a turn and maintain an entire turn on one ski, and it's also relatively easy to link turns on only one ski, i.e., skiing on just the left ski (the right ski never touching the snow), for several turns in a row or even an entire run. The balance test of lifting the inside ski while in the midst of a turn is somewhat different than just skiing on one ski. Doing this test allows the skier to observe (take lots of video!) whether or not they are in balance when skiing on two skis.

Unless they intended to weight the inside ski. Although a bit of A-frame might mean they didn't intend to. We did drills trying to put even weight on inside and outside skis recently in Taos - it was an interesting feeling. I've also tried to make inside ski only turns with the outside ski lifted - but haven't been very successful yet.

Both skiers pictured in my first post in this thread have some weight on the inside ski. Whether it's their intent or not, the first skier has weight on the inside ski as a stabilizer or outrigger since the skier is not in balance. The second skier also has weight on the inside ski, and the skier is in balance.

You mean a bit more angulation? Which would move them outside to balance more on the outside ski?

I stopped using the word "angulation", as it is used with respect to skiing, years ago. That's a topic for a different thread. The terms "counterbalance" and "counteraction" are a much clearer way to think about the movements of the upper body (pelvis included here) and also how these movements are used relative to what's happening below the pelvis.

 

[dbostedo]

...The terms "counterbalance" and "counteraction" are a much clearer way to think about the movements of the upper body (pelvis included here)...

Maybe, but they're not defined here, and most (all?) of the various instructors I've had have talked about angulation.

One more question - How can you tell that one skier in your pics is balanced and the other isn't? Is it the slightly different edge angles in the first pic?

 

[JKinBC-NC]

@dbostedo, I think you mean Stork turns. In a Javelin turn, you steer the outside ski under the tip of the lifted inside ski. That wouldn't have a good result if the inside ski tip were to be left on the snow...

I definitely would steer (pun-intended) far away from doing javelin turns as described above. When practicing javelin turns to improve our short radius turns, we shouldn't be steering the outside ski at any point during a javelin turn.

 

[JKinBC-NC]

Maybe, but they're not defined here, and most (all?) of the various instructors I've had have talked about angulation.

My various instructors over the last several years use "counterbalance" and "counteraction" rather than angulation. The last time I received instruction that included the word "angulation" was in the mid 1990s. Counterbalance and counteraction are terms that have been around for quite some time and have been clearly defined.

One more question - How can you tell that one skier in your pics is balanced and the other isn't? Is it the slightly different edge angles in the first pic?

I know because I cheated and have watched both of the videos from which I took those screenshots. In an effort to maintain the skiers' anonymity in those videos and to avoid having my post deleted/edited/moderated, I won't link the videos here. I can PM links to you if you'd like.

 

[karlo]

Observing someone lifting the inside ski certainly tells a lot and certainly helps the skier find balance on the outside ski. However, in finding that balance, I think it would be most helpful to lift that inside ski when it is the old outside ski. Then, having balanced on old inside ski, the soon to be outside ski, retain balance as one tips onto the new outside ski. Doing that will allow the skier to learn how all joints, starting with the ankle, are involved in achieving, then retaining, balance.

BTW, I watched yesterday as someone attempting to ski on one ski. Learning first to balance on the old inside ski is what I would have suggested starting with. Then, gradually, shift to that ski earlier and earlier in the turn.

 

[Mike King]

I definitely would steer (pun-intended) far away from doing javelin turns as described above. When practicing javelin turns to improve our short radius turns, we shouldn't be steering the outside ski at any point during a javelin turn.

@JKinBC-NC Why? What ski performance do you believe is enhanced by steering the inside ski over the outside ski? And how does your view of this drill enhance ski performance in short radius turns?

 

[dbostedo]

@JKinBC-NC Why? What ski performance do you believe is enhanced by steering the inside ski over the outside ski? And how does your view of this drill enhance ski performance in short radius turns?

You mean by "What ski performance do you believe is enhanced by NOT steering the inside ski over the outside ski?", right?

 

[LiquidFeet]

 

[pliny the elder]

Shallow angle one footed traverses and one footed straight runs can be a very effective way to assess the general state of things. While it doesn't tell you what's wrong, it can often indicate that something is off.

Speed hides things that low speeds and flat terrain reveals.

pliny the elder

 

[Bad Bob]

Lifting the tip, the tail, the whole ski, the inside ski, the outside ski are all good balance exercises and promote recovery skills for those special moments.

 

[CalG]

We had 6 inches of fresh at 27 degrees F the other morning.

I tried to test my balance by lifting my inside foot.

Bamn! Did that fall hurt!

;-)

 

[Bendu]

outside ski to ouside ski - Google Search

lots of info on the web if you search.

 

[Mike King]

Ok, back to the title of the thread: "Lifting the inside ski as a way to test balance." This might be a way to test balance, but in most skiing, there will be some weight on the inside ski. In a performance turn, there might be 5 or 10 percent, but rarely would there be no weight on the inside ski. So while the ability to lift the inside ski might indicate whether the pressure was being directed primarily at the outside ski, your body alignment will likely change somewhat when you lift the outside ski.

There are a variety of drills that are focused on specific outcomes that have been mentioned above. Stork turns, also called outside ski turns, are a really useful tool for multiple objectives. They can be used to work on balancing on the outside ski, for fore/aft balance, for working on angulation as opposed to just inclination, and for tipping. To start, one might lift the inside ski after the edges have been changed. Unless you are a very high level skier, you will need a sliding fulcrum to provide additional turning force, so drag a pole or the tip of the lifted ski. For bringing fore/aft balance into the equation, lift the ski entirely off of the snow and try to keep the lifted ski parallel to the surface of the slope. If the tip is lower than the tail, you are likely on the front of the ski and vice versa. To work on tipping, raise the old outside ski/new inside ski prior to edge change and roll the new outside ski down the hill to change edges. Generally, this move will be easier and more accurate if you initiate the move by tipping the old outside ski that is in the air down the hill by moving the knee attached to it into the new turn.

Javelin turns are a drill to work predominantly on rotational separation. The objective here is to cause the outside ski to steer under the lifted tip of the inside ski. So the pelvis needs to remain oriented to the valley at the apex of the turn when the inside ski is lifted -- the outside ski continues to turn under the inside ski (e.g. the outside leg turns under the pelvis) with the result being that you arrive to the finish of the turn in a countered position. So, the inside ski is lifted at or before the fall line and remains with the tip pointed toward the valley. The outside ski then continues to turn under the inside ski. The inside ski should ideally be in a position where the tip is lower than the tail.

The outside ski drill is, perhaps, the Swiss Army knife of ski drills -- properly done, it can help with many issues in skiing and result in better alignment between the body and the skis. A javelin turn is much more difficult to do, but can really assist in strengthening your short turns and bump/terrain skiing. They are both drills that I should do every day. Perhaps I'll try adding them into my warm up routine...

Mike