Liberty V76 or Stockli Laser AX (for me)?

[RBjammin]

Hi everyone. Long time reader and finally joined the fray. Thanks for all the great info to date. Sorry for the long post, but I know background is key to ski recommendations.

Background:
I have been looking for some good front side skis as I have really upped my skiing the last few years given my kids are now pushing me to ski vs. me pulling them to the mountain. Not only are we back to getting season's passes (x5!), but we are splitting a cabin with another family so are now skiing 30+ days vs. the ~10 days we have when the kids were younger. Same plans for next year.

I am an advanced (not expert) skier and stay mostly on my home mountain (Crystal Mountain, WA). I will go to other west coast resorts in driving distance occasionally (Mission Ridge, Whistler, Baker), but no other travel (note the x5 in ski passes . I love off piste skiing and am the guy on groomer days that will try to cut through the trees just to see if it is ski-able - often a regrettable move.

I have a two ski quiver both above 90 - Salomon QST92 and Nordic Enforcer 110. I am happy with this set (although thinking of replacing the QSTs after 4 seasons). But there were those weeks of no snow where off-piste was a frozen wasteland and the day was about top to bottom corduroy. That's the ski target for the new purchase.

Ski Choices:
Based on reading this site and a few reviews, I have come down to two skis I can't demo locally: The Liberty V76 and the Stockli Laser AX. I would also want them to be good in the bumps as our snow quickly goes from groomed to bumps in one day. I would go with the Stockli's given what I have read, but I can get the V76 now (end of season sales) w/ bindings for half the cost of the Stockli's. Also, these are not going to be my off piste skis. Can quickly go to the car and grab another pair of ski.

Also length suggestions welcome. I am 5'8 and 175 lbs. Both my other skis are in the 177-178 range but are obviously different tools.

 

[Scotty I.]

@Ron to the white courtesy phone. Ron owns the AX's and has a lot of the time on the V Series skis.

 

[Ron]

well, it may come down to how much you want to spend. Is the Laser AX a more precise, more capable ski than the Liberty? Yep. Will you still enjoy the Liberty and have a blast on it? Yep. Personally, from what you typed, I would say the liberty V82 over the 76 BTW. The Liberty is easy to ski on, forgiving and has a softer flex in the tip. The Liberty is also super fun, a great flex pattern and versatile. The Laser is a superb ski; more demanding, more precise, and a bit more thrilling in deep carved turns and unflappable at speed. And, yes, about 2x the price. Not apples to apples but I own the Laser and the V92 and for our soft snow, I grabbed the V92 more times this season. If I were looking for a ski to spend more times on groomed firmer snow (not necessarily hard pack) and $ wasn't a factor, I would take the Stockli. But, the V series (which gets a 3 strip of VMT next season) is very capable and you won't regret owning it.

Did I help?

Length, I would say for the liberty, you might be happier on the 172, on the Laser, that's a tough one, either the 175 or next size down .

 

[Andy Mink]

I would say the liberty V82 over the 76

The 82 will still carve really well and give you a little more latitude in mixed conditions. Unless you're almost dragging your hips on the corduroy the 82 will carve a smile on your face.

 

[Ron]

Unless you're almost dragging your hips on the corduroy the 82 will carve a smile on your face.

you can still do that on the V82!

 

[RBjammin]

Thanks all. I am now leaning towards the V82 Will decide soon because there is only 1 or 2 left on the good sale. I can afford the stockli's, but IF the snow is good, these won't get much use. I just want a front side ski that I can carve up the groomers with a smile.

@Ron. You did help, thanks! I'll probably end up with both eventually

 

[James]

I think I agree with Ron on the length-172 in the VMT.
Have you skied shortish skis?
The AX could be a hell of a lot of fun in 168. I might recommend that one to you just to really go for it. It will make you a better skier - you're balance will improve at least.
For bumps, just for the curve up of the tip I'd go with the stockli.

I skied a 168 AX on just an awful day of rain and graupel in France when I was completely beat. I chose it over the SR 88 in 186 because I just didn't have the energy that day to deal with that much ski. The AX handled everything just fine from pow to wind buffed, ice, slush. Just a crazy day.

Then the question is do you put a plate on it.I would, but I like plates and ski slaloms most places.
I think a plate might make the 168 even more versatile in long turns and high edge angles.
I think @Noodler and @martyg would rec the plate for either size.

I own a pair of 17/18 Stockli AX's in a 175. Mounted on the line. Tuned 1 degree base/ 3 degrees on the side. Love them for all US eastern piste skiing. Very stable and predictable, hold great, smooth, steady, no surprises…. I had the chance two weeks ago to ski the same ski in the 18/19 version while in Italy in a 175. Tune was whatever they put on it which I think was probably 2 degrees on the side via stone grinder. Mount was on the line with a Salomon demo binding. My general impression is that it's very similar but perhaps a bit easier going than my version. It didn't seem as strong in the forebody which resulted in a less demanding ride but didn't feel vague or not solid enough. Still had to stay firmly in the front of the boot, but hard to find much wrong with it. I also was able to swap out on the hill with a friend who was on the 168. I found that this really felt quite different than the 175. It felt a bit twitchy at first, but once I found the sweet spot (1 run), I was amazed by the quick response in turns of any radius at pretty much any speed. Definitely was a quicker version than the 175 but without any downside that I could find. Tons of fun. I also spend a day on the Laser SC, which I found to be unpleasant and inconsistent. Nowhere near as comfortable as with the AX's (either size). I skied it in a 170. I'm 6", 175, many years of skiing at a high level, but somehow not as young as I once was. SC's were just nowhere near as much fun as the yellow skis.

I think the thing that might surprise you about narrow skis, and shorter skis with some beef, is that they're often less work in cut up with those packed random hideous speed bumps that form everywhere after fresh snow. I usually wish for my slaloms when on my long 95's in those conditions. Just too much force coming back that requires energy and background processing.

If you need a end of season Liberty deal, email this Liberty dealer shop. I'm sure you could work a binding deal with it. In VT. He had a few 82's left. They're closed, but still there working so might not answer the phone. You can try. Think they open next wkend. I would rec getting a grind on the Liberty before you even get on it.
802.228.8447
[email protected]

 

[Noodler]

Hi everyone. Long time reader and finally joined the fray. Thanks for all the great info to date. Sorry for the long post, but I know background is key to ski recommendations.

Background:
I have been looking for some good front side skis as I have really upped my skiing the last few years given my kids are now pushing me to ski vs. me pulling them to the mountain. Not only are we back to getting season's passes (x5!), but we are splitting a cabin with another family so are now skiing 30+ days vs. the ~10 days we have when the kids were younger. Same plans for next year.

I am an advanced (not expert) skier and stay mostly on my home mountain (Crystal Mountain, WA). I will go to other west coast resorts in driving distance occasionally (Mission Ridge, Whistler, Baker), but no other travel (note the x5 in ski passes . I love off piste skiing and am the guy on groomer days that will try to cut through the trees just to see if it is ski-able - often a regrettable move.

I have a two ski quiver both above 90 - Salomon QST92 and Nordic Enforcer 110. I am happy with this set (although thinking of replacing the QSTs after 4 seasons). But there were those weeks of no snow where off-piste was a frozen wasteland and the day was about top to bottom corduroy. That's the ski target for the new purchase.

Ski Choices:
Based on reading this site and a few reviews, I have come down to two skis I can't demo locally: The Liberty V76 and the Stockli Laser AX. I would also want them to be good in the bumps as our snow quickly goes from groomed to bumps in one day. I would go with the Stockli's given what I have read, but I can get the V76 now (end of season sales) w/ bindings for half the cost of the Stockli's. Also, these are not going to be my off piste skis. Can quickly go to the car and grab another pair of ski.

Also length suggestions welcome. I am 5'8 and 175 lbs. Both my other skis are in the 177-178 range but are obviously different tools.

Which do you value more; precision or forgiveness? I have only been on two recent Liberty skis (V92 and O96). They have a very broad performance envelope. By that I mean, they can be skied successfully by a fairly wide variety of skiers; with varying skill levels and preferences. They will perform when pushed, but will not punish. Based on what I've read about the skinnier Liberty skis, I believe that their nature is similar.

I haven't skied the AX in years, but I have plenty of experience with Stockli's other models. I wouldn't exactly describe any of my other Stockli's as I just did the Liberty's. What the Stockli's generally will do is provide a higher level of return if you have the skills, but they can be more prone to punishing bad input. Stormriders have been made more approachable over the years, but Lasers are generally still a more demanding ski. If you want the challenge (along with the bigger reward), go with the AX.

 

[RBjammin]

So I see a set of lasers in 175 in the classifieds for the same price I would spend on the Liberty skis. It's hard when there are two good choices and typically I demo to make it easy . I would have to get them remounted...

I'll let everyone know.

 

[Ron]

its really not what's better but rather what flavor do you like.

 

[Noodler]

its really not what's better but rather what flavor do you like.

True, but more importantly there is "what's better for you?".

 

[James]

Demoing is over rated...
Tuning is not.
Demo on the way down. If it's relatively cheap, you can resell. See, then you demoed.

 

[Ron]

hmm, not sure I agree with that 100%. That would be predicated on factors like, goals, current skill level, whats more important like fun, feel, stability, flex etc. Again, the Laser is more demanding but that doesn't mean you have to ski a more demanding ski to improve. the more demanding ski will most likely show your weakness's but that if your goal was to have more fun skiing and work less? I can ski the Liberty and be cognizant of my technique and have fun. I prefer the Liberty in bumps (the soft tips flex better) and absorb more. Again the Laser will demand more of you in the bumps for sure.

 

[RBjammin]

Went ahead and bought the Liberty V82s. Not ruling out the AXs but starting with these based on your feedback and year end discounts. May even get a spring day on them although my mountain is closing tomorrow.

 

[RBjammin]

Last question on bindings. Also good deals if I'm not picky about color . There are several 90mm brakes on SPD and Solomon's and assume the 8mm difference is cool. There are a few 75mm and could bend out but far fewer options.

There are also green attack 13's on a great sale with 85mm which would be perfect. Haven't owned those for a while and have been on a Solomon or Look kick for the last few years. I do see a lot of the attacks out there.

 

[James]

The Aattack 13's are a good binding. One of the most popular right now. Green will look good.

 

[Ron]

Sali's are the official supplier of binding for Pugski...... worth considering to support the cause.....

 

[RBjammin]

Thanks James. Got the Attacks on sale w/ 2-day shipping thanks to a Pugski PSA. Skis also clearance with 2 day shipping so got the set for ~$520 all said and done. Love supporting my local shop (and they get LOTS of my money), but this was a deal scavenge hunt. Thanks everyone.

 

[Ron]

I love spending other peoples' money . Enjoy them. remember to at least get them checked over for flat bases and true edges.