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"Left Out in the Cold: Exploring the Vulnerabilities of Seasonal Workers in the Ski Industry"

Kneale Brownson

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As a 50-year seasonal ski industry employee, I learned nothing. It's what we do, what we endure to live the life.
 

Kneale Brownson

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It's what it is all over the country and has been since the beginnings of the industry. Only in Europe is it closer to a living.
 

crgildart

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It's not just ski industry or hobby industry jobs.. It's the whole contractor and gig economy that has come to rise with the demise of organized labor and rise of globalization. I'll just leave it at that because discussion of labor exploitation, wages, and benefits goes far beyond the content allowed here, but all of that is why seasonal resort and gear shop employees can't really earn a comfortable living working a 40 hour week.
 
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TS
coskigirl

coskigirl

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FTR, I did not intend for this to be a political discussion when I posted it. Hopefully we can keep politics out so it doesn't get taken down.
 

BS Slarver

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I’ll be brief so perhaps the thread can live on without going down “ that road “

IMHO Big corporations SUCK, all of them, period, end of story !
The CEOs typically make what ?100-1000X or more than their average workers salery.
Verizon, Disney, Vail its all the same.

Very eye opening year for me here.
My BIL took a new job this year for Netflix, well he technically doesn’t really working for them, he’s a subcontractor.
My new FedEx driver owns the route he tells me he’s not an employee, yes he’s a subcontractor.
Craziest one of all, my new neighbor is a ER doctor and he’s self employed and wait for it ...

He doesn’t even get health care from the hospital he works for, he’s self insured !

My understanding of the governments description of an employee is, if the employer tells them when, where and how to work, they are an employee.

It’s all about negating costs and we wonder about the ski industry practices ?

Rant over - back to your regularly scheduled ski talk
 

Eleeski

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Interesting paper. Amazing how little has changed in the 40 years since I was a lifite. Suffered (baths in Lake Tahoe while living in my car), starved (Tru Blu cookies were just calories) and skied (!!). I quit halfway through the season (did I screw Squaw?) and went to the Bay Area to get a real job. It was an important part of my life. I don't feel exploited or abused.

Financially it was tough but I made more money than when I worked on a farm. And way more than when I was a farmer.

I'm now "the man" but @scott43 has an extra zero on the rent more than what I'm getting for the rooms I rent out at Squaw.

Eric
 

Ski&ride

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Craziest one of all, my new neighbor is a ER doctor and he’s self employed and wait for it ...

He doesn’t even get health care from the hospital he works for, he’s self insured !

My understanding of the governments description of an employee is, if the employer tells them when, where and how to work, they are an employee.
Not familiar with ER doctors, but many doctors in hospitals are “independent”. Clue of that is you get multiple bills from the various doctors after your hospital visit (ER or inpatient).

I’m not sure it’s the hospital or the doctors prefer it that way.

I worked as an “independent” much of my career (software engineer), because it’s financially advantageous that way. Back in the days of the “dot-com” craze, us “independents” got paid a good 80-100% premium!

So yes, I have to arrange my own health insurance, my own disability insurance (which I didn’t for some years until an accident of a friend woke me up to add that), pay my own ss/medicare tax. And obviously no paid vacation! All those benefits employees take for granted cost me about 25-30% of my “billing rate”. But since I got such a high pay premium as an “independent”, I’m still way ahead in my take home pay!

The pay premium was largely view as the “insecurity premium” as I can be told not to come to work the next day with not advance notice. There’s no such thing as severance. But after the financial meltdown of 2007, “independent premium” had dropped to less than 50%. i.e. only breaking even, with no security. So I gave my employer a choice to hire me as an employee, or I go looking for a similar employee position at his competitors. My boss pulled some strings to turned me into an employee.

Granted, ski industry workers don’t quite have the same bargaining power. But your ER doctor? I think he does. So if he works as an independent, it maybe because he prefers it.

Probably apples and oranges lumping doctors with ski lift operators.
 

BS Slarver

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Apples and oranges perhaps but subcontractors and independents keep the CEOs and their shareholders happy not to mention their legacy costs and insurance down. My ER doctor friend and highly talented BIL were not given any other options.

A little of track here from the article but back when the Slutsky family owned Hunter mountain all aspects of the mountain operations were separate corporations.
Rental shop, parking, ski school, why ? To limit liability and exposure to law suits that could affect the bottom line.
They also pioneered the hiring of “employees” from South American ski areas a long, long time ago.

Kinda apples and pineapples but still relevant to the cutting of costs, expenses and exposure. All in the name of profit.
 

scott43

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Interesting paper. Amazing how little has changed in the 40 years since I was a lifite. Suffered (baths in Lake Tahoe while living in my car), starved (Tru Blu cookies were just calories) and skied (!!). I quit halfway through the season (did I screw Squaw?) and went to the Bay Area to get a real job. It was an important part of my life. I don't feel exploited or abused.

Financially it was tough but I made more money than when I worked on a farm. And way more than when I was a farmer.

I'm now "the man" but @scott43 has an extra zero on the rent more than what I'm getting for the rooms I rent out at Squaw.

Eric
$500/mth for an apartment?
 

Eleeski

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$500/mth for an apartment?

It's more like $600 per room. And to your credit, we are inexpensive, have little changeover and get passed off to friends so maybe the market is stronger than I see. But I certainly couldn't get more than 20% higher rents and I'd have to work a lot harder at it.

FWIW, Airbnb wouldn't come close to what we net by renting to lifties.

If you can't make a business work without exploitation then perhaps it should fail...

But I love skiing. And I didn't feel exploited when I was a liftie. I was happy for the imperfect opportunity. And the skiing!

Eric
 

crgildart

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Of course, if there's no profit, there's no ski area. Too many closed ski areas now.
I'd argue that most ski areas closed due to the increasing cost of keeping good snow more than over the increasing cost of keeping good workers.
 

crgildart

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But I love skiing. And I didn't feel exploited when I was a liftie. I was happy for the imperfect opportunity. And the skiing!

Eric

Nowadays, it isn't just that the resorts are paying well below a living wage, it's that they're getting subsidized by the government (AKA you and me as tax payers) providing food assistance, housing assistance, Medicaid, etc to the people the resorts aren't paying well enough. It's like everyone else even not skiers giving the resort owners money.
 

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