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Lange RX 130 + Intuition/Palau Liners

Bruno Schull

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Hi. I recently bought a pair of 2020 Lange RX 130 boots. They fit well out of the box, just a little too much pressure over the instep, which I think can be resolved through the boot fitting and heat molding process.

With my previous boots, I replaced the stock liners with Palau overlap liners. Palau is a French company, and the liners are similar to Intuition liners, perhaps with better quality and finish. The model I used in the past is most like the venerable Intuition Powerwrap.

I don't know if I should make the same change with the Lange liner.

On one hand, I like power transmission and flex characteristics of full foam, molded, overlap liners.

On the other hand, the stock Lange liner is very structured (for lack of a better word). It has a large, stiff pad on the tongue, and it has a very prominent black plastic bump at the top of the liner at the back. I think the plastic bump at the back interacts with the shell of the boot to help create the desired forward lean angle, distribute the pressure from the power strap, and absorbs backward pressure.

Would a foam overlap liner be stiffer/more powerful than the stock Lange liner?

My general goal is to increase the power transmission and progressive flex of the boot. I think I could get a good fit with both, so that's not my primary concern.

Thoughts?

Bruno
 
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Bruno Schull

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Bump for possible responses.

Anybody have any ideas...?
 

Scrundy

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I can tell you this I went from a Intuition liner to a stock RX liner last year( different boot too). No comparison IMHO, at least for me. The Intuition liner I came from was not for low volume boots so maybe different. But I do suspect you’ll have much quicker response if you stick with original liner.
 

Tom K.

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I went from the 2019 stock RX 130 liner to an Intuition type of "classic" styled liner (mine are actually called DPS).

It firmed things up and improved the fit, so thumbs up from here, but I'm just a few days in.

C'mon snow!
 
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Bruno Schull

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I find that interesting! One rec for the stock liners, one for aftermarket liners...

I guess the best thing to do would be to somehow compare side-to-side.

Part of me think that the stock liner, with the structured tongue and plastic addition on the rear cuff, will be stiffer and more supportive. Then again...any overlap liner is...an overlap liner, and, arguably, an aftermarket liner will in general fir more precisely after the molding process.

...?
 

RuleMiHa

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I’ve used two types of intuition liners, one sucked and made things worse and one made things better. Don’t forget there are 29 models of intuition liner and they each have different indications and behave differently.
 

otto

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Be aware that there are variables in having any type of custom work done in regards to the liner. When you purchase a heat moldable after market liner, or a foam injectable liner, or a zip fit that has adaptable cork/oil flow, proper selection of liner volume to the shell is important. Also the density of the materials in the different Intuition or Palau make a big difference in how they drive or power the shell. As well as injectable foam liners come in all different shapes and foam mix densities. In each case where the liner feels one way before the work is done and completely different after the work is done, there is no guarantee that the result will be a love match. I see over 100 liners a year that are poorly heat moulded or foam injected. See Jackson Hogans discussion of replacement liners for an open look at pros and cons of the whole liner replacement industry.

In almost every boot fit discussion out here on pugski, someone will recommend a specific brand of after market liner as the do all, end all for the question or problem being discussed. It is my opinion that the need for replacement liners exists because boot fitters and sellers do not do a good job matching the shape and volume of the boot shell to the skiers foot. That is the number one reason that an after market liners are a business model... It is also why the online purchase of a ski boot leads to an online DIY of a replacement liner. But I guess if you have nothing but money and a lot of spare time on your hands, carry on :)

As a boot fitter and a business owner we sell Intuition, Injected foam, and Zipfit liners. We use them to problem solve after we have selected and or determined the skier is in the correct shell and that all other fit options have been exhausted. So to be clear I am not advocating against after market liners, I am advocating about doing a solid for our customers on the initial foot assessment and model/size selection. That is custom boot fitting...
 
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Bruno Schull

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@ RuleMiHa -- Good point. Here are the specific liners I'm considering:

Intuition Power Wrap
https://intuitionliners.com/shop/powerwrap/

Palau Alpine Powerfit (with large pad)
https://palau-ski-boot-liners.com/ski-liners/alpine-snowboard-en/alpine-power-fit/?lang=en

@ otto -- Thanks for your input. I really respect your perspective, and your work. I've tried the boot fitting process in the past, with variable results. Believe it or not, here in Switzerland, where I live, it's not so easy to find somebody you can trust, who is willing to work with you. It's usually a case of, here are the boots we have, maybe we can bake the liner or do some simple pressing, but that's all...and don't expect any more. I've had better luck in Chamonix, but I still have never really found that mythical boot fitter who is ready to sit down with you for a couple of hours, try different boots, play with things, experiment, and so forth. This is compounded by the fact that I have large feet, and usually need shells at 31-32, so boot options, and especially in-store stock, is limited. Last, I always worry that, after a long fit process, perhaps over several days or weeks (I can't imagine it taking any less time) and many irreversible modifications (spreading, punching, grinding, molding, whatever) I might still be left with a boot that just doesn't feel right....what to do then?

So, taking all that into account, the best option for me is usually to try on some shells of different brands in a variety of stores, buy what I think will work, if I need molding, prepare things like like toe caps, padding, the right socks, and so on, and then go to a store and ask to do just a heat molding, or a very specific modification, like a punch for my metatarsals.

I know that approach is probably heresy in the fitting world, and probably drives fitters like you crazy, for understandable reasons, but, as you indicate, I think I'm not alone.

Maybe the whole way boots are sold needs to change.

Thanks again
 

Monster

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What size?

Hi. I recently bought a pair of 2020 Lange RX 130 boots. They fit well out of the box, just a little too much pressure over the instep, which I think can be resolved through the boot fitting and heat molding process.

With my previous boots, I replaced the stock liners with Palau overlap liners. Palau is a French company, and the liners are similar to Intuition liners, perhaps with better quality and finish. The model I used in the past is most like the venerable Intuition Powerwrap.

I don't know if I should make the same change with the Lange liner.

On one hand, I like power transmission and flex characteristics of full foam, molded, overlap liners.

On the other hand, the stock Lange liner is very structured (for lack of a better word). It has a large, stiff pad on the tongue, and it has a very prominent black plastic bump at the top of the liner at the back. I think the plastic bump at the back interacts with the shell of the boot to help create the desired forward lean angle, distribute the pressure from the power strap, and absorbs backward pressure.

Would a foam overlap liner be stiffer/more powerful than the stock Lange liner?

My general goal is to increase the power transmission and progressive flex of the boot. I think I could get a good fit with both, so that's not my primary concern.

Thoughts?

Bruno
 

Henry

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Bruno, where do the local racers go for boots? That might be a good source for information.

Only a good tech can tell if that Power Wrap is the correct fitting liner for your boots and your feet. A friend bought Intuition liners from a large, well regarded shop which were a painful failure for two or three heat fittings. He finally found the one guy in this large shop that knew his stock and put my friend into the correct Intuition model for his boots & his feet. My friend is now a happy skier.

Have you looked at this Intuition web page for choosing which liner? https://intuitionliners.com/choosing-a-liner-model/
The Intuition site lists Intuition retailers in Verbier, Gryon, and Geneva.

just a little too much pressure over the instep
Remove the boot boards (plastic piece inside the boot under the liner, and shave off a millimeter from the bottom, try it, maybe shave off another millimeter. Instead of trying to make the top of the boot higher, make the bottom of the boot lower.
 

Tom K.

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Remove the boot boards (plastic piece inside the boot under the liner, and shave off a millimeter from the bottom, try it, maybe shave off another millimeter. Instead of trying to make the top of the boot higher, make the bottom of the boot lower.

Great tip. As @Philpug says "with feet, a millimeter is a mile".

@ Bruno Schull, if your RX boots are sized correctly for you with the stock liners, I don't believe that an Intuition Powerwrap will fit. Don't jump into these except through a qualified bootfitter, IMO (but I do love my "regular" style Intuition/DFPs).
 
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Bruno Schull

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Thanks for all the great replies.

Shell size is 30/30.5. This is 100 mm wide last shell, not the :V (low volume) shell. I don't have the half-size spacer inserted under the liner. With liners removed, thin socks, toes lightly against front of boot, standing and flexing my ankle a little, I've got about 3/4 inch between my heel and the back of the shell. With the liner in the boot, everything buckled up and so on, my toes do not touch the front of the liner--I have a little wiggle room in there. I could probably go a little smaller in the shell length, but no smaller in terms of width, and sizing down to the 29/29/5 shell would have been way too small. I'm not looking for a race fit. Comfort = smiles. In years passed, I sized way too big. I'm trying to rectify that now. So, while this fit might be big or loose by some standards, it will be a huge step in the right direction for me.

The point about the Power Wrap possible not fitting in the shells is well taken. I might try with some old packed out wrap liners I have from another pair of boots. These liners are longer, but I'll probably be able to fit them inside, and get a general idea of whether or not an overlap liner will fit in the shells at all.

Grinding the foot bed is a great idea. Thanks.
 

Rod9301

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If you don't worry about fit, the stock Lange liner is really good, as far as power transmission.

I have thé same boot, and I'm on the third factory liner, ask gotten for free from the local boot shop.

Who probably wanted to sell the customers intuition liners for another 200.

I had intuition and Palau liners in my at boots, and in my opinion they don't ski as well as the stock Alpine boot liner.
 

Tom K.

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The point about the Power Wrap possible not fitting in the shells is well taken. I might try with some old packed out wrap liners I have from another pair of boots. These liners are longer, but I'll probably be able to fit them inside, and get a general idea of whether or not an overlap liner will fit in the shells at all.

Blister.com has a simple set of instructions for reheating Intuition liners to refit them at home.
 

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