Lance in the news -When will this end?

[Tricia]

It is starting to seem like its a game of tit for tat
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...andreu-and-lemond-forbidden-trial/409288001/#

Feds want to exclude Landis, so Armstrong wants to exclude Lemond....and so on....

 

[François Pugh]

"Sure, let's have a trial, just don't include any witnesses who would dare say anything bad about me." He must have very good lawyers if he can make that fly in court.
Biting tongue to avoid making poor-taste jokes.

 

[scott43]

Well..there's a reason why people chuckle about the legal system in the US..

 

[Tricia]

What legal system?

 

[fatbob]

Hmm ...does anyone actually need to hear testimony about Lance's character? I thought it was basically accepted he is an ultra competitive uber douche. Though given erm other well known people in the US today that's not necessarily a barrier to anything.

 

[scott43]

Hmm ...does anyone actually need to hear testimony about Lance's character? I thought it was basically accepted he is an ultra competitive uber douche. Though given erm other well known people in the US today that's not necessarily a barrier to anything.

Well, having said character isn't a crime in and of itself.. I suppose it may sway someone to believe he's broken some law..but..more like they just want to drag him through the mud because he does have said character.

 

[mikel]

I should probably bite my tongue and not comment but sorry. This is not (or should not) be about Armstrong being a dbag. That has been beat to death ad nauseam. Everyone knows. This is about the USPS alleging they were damaged and trying to recoup about 3x the amount they paid out. How was the USPS damaged in anyway???? All the other stuff I get, This I do not. At best I get them getting their money back. 3x? Really?

As far as witnesses go I get the lawyer posturing. They wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. And who made the 1st move for exclusion?

 

[fatbob]

Exactly - it would seem to be a relatively low bar to establish that Lance lied to USPS if he ever asserted they were clean or riding clean was an important clause of the contract. A different matter to establish if USPS actually incurred a loss that should be compensated.

 

[François Pugh]

Exactly - it would seem to be a relatively low bar to establish that Lance lied to USPS if he ever asserted they were clean or riding clean was an important clause of the contract. A different matter to establish if USPS actually incurred a loss that should be compensated.

OK, tongue's bleed'n now.
Ridin Clean?
Lance's theme song...

 

[Monique]

OK, tongue's bleed'n now.
Ridin Clean?
Lance's theme song...

 

[Tom K.]

How was the USPS damaged in anyway???? All the other stuff I get, This I do not. At best I get them getting their money back. 3x? Really?

This is the infamous term "treble damages". I agree with your position.

I remember reading long ago that there were more lawyers in the World Trade Center Building than the entire nation of Japan.

Plenty of friends in the profession, but this really has to make you wonder.

Back on topic: Hard to imagine any penalty that Lance receives could ever be considered excessive, given the story.

 

[Brian Finch]

Lance does a cameo here:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tou...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Carl Kuck]

Here's my take on Lance. The two worst things he did:

1. He didn't just beat the Euros at their own game (and if you look at the top finishers of that era, EVERYBODY was doing it), he absolutely crushed them.
2. Maybe even worse, he was a total a*****e about it.

Compare and contrast the deeds and results of Lance with those of Richard Virenque (7-time winner of the KOM at Le Tour). Virenque, other than being DQ'ed from the 98 Tour as a result of "L'affaire Festina", never had any race results nullified, didn't have his TdF wins removed, etc. etc. <shrug> Whatever.

The only reason that the UCI ever gave a rat's hindquarters about doping was they wanted to keep cycling in the Olympics.

And, as Liz Hatch pointed out on her Twitter feed, apparently USPS wasn't so upset at cycling that they stayed away from Interbike in 2015...

 

[Erik Timmerman]

USPS was not damaged, that's just ridiculous. They got what they paid for and more.

 

[Mike Thomas]

If they win the trial, then what? They are not getting 100 million dollars out of Lance Armstrong. Just stop already, there is no winning in this for anyone.

 

[Dave Marshak]

In government contracts, things that would be civil torts in commercial contracts (e.g.lying) are crimes. I'm surprised USPS didn't go after him in criminal court.
FWIW that Armstrong sponsorship never made any sense from USPS perspective, and it was opposed by most of other senior management. Maybe the Postmaster General just wanted to develop some personal relationships in Europe.

dm

 

[fatbob]

I realise this is perilously close to political asshattery given the living saint status Lance still seems to have in parts of the US but what the hell Tricia started it so it's fair game.

Lance is and was a cheat. The fact that he was a better cheat or a bigger bully with his cheating or had some other sympathetic elements 're his charity work or backstory doesn't change it. If a sport bothers pretending to the public that it has rules then everyone is entitled to throw as much shade as they want on players who transgress those rules. Now we basically know that there is more than one sport that is part soap opera part sport - F1 being an obvious example. And we know that sports bodies have a track record in colluding to protect Box office stars e.g. can you even imagine Usain Bolt testing positive ( no asperation cast)?

So then we get to the political - The US still loves Lance a bit because at the very least he stuck it hard to those foreign cheats. Europe still hates him because of the sheer systematic cynicism of his cheating ( rather than the glorious self destruction of a Pantani or the sheer front of Bad Meat Bertie). Now as a Brit given the success of Sky and Team GB I fully recognise that my moral high ground might crumble rather soon but that's sport - it's the ephemeral high not the legacy you follow it for.

It was fun while it lasted Lance - doesn't mean you shouldn't pay the price.

 

[Monique]

Lance is and was a cheat.

Sure, but isn't that true of pretty much everyone on the Tour? At least anyone in the top 10 for each category? I find it hard to believe they're not all doping.

Or doing something that's retroactively defined as doping, which is troublesome.

I'm still a bit hazy on why law enforcement is ever involved, which it seems to be. I would assume that, say, accepting blood transfusions isn't illegal ...

 

[scott43]

No but consuming controlled substances without a prescription is...

 

[graham418]

Pro cycling has always been about the dope. Since the Tour began , people have been doing performance enhancements. Although Lance may have been a total jerk and dickhead about it , he was doing what he had to do to survive. Everybody else was too. He did it a little better.