Lace up liners?

[Wilhelmson]

I knew they were a thing, but hadn't even contemplated them at all until I saw a video of Deb Armstrong and right in the middle of the video, right on the slope Deb pulls the shell off her foot and there she is standing in a lace-up liner. And then I saw a video hawking a product called a "boot horn" (like shoe horn) to help get lace-up liners in and out of the shells. And then I thought I saw Michaela or some other racer pull their liner out, right on the hill. I think in all these years those I've only seen one or two other people within my circle that had them. For some reason they looked awkward and troublesome.

So what's the skinny on these liners? How are they different/better than standard liners? Warmer? Colder? Better fit? What fit systems are available and/or best with them (assuming the lace-up is generic to different brands? Which are the most popular brands?

Hey... A lot of us are cooped up indoors in self-sequestration. What else have we got to do but get better educated??? TIA

Well before the liners are broken in you'll swear it's almost possible to get in and out. I can get in ok, but need to pull my foot out with the liner still on. Sounds tedious but it's not that bad unless the boots are cold.

 

[KevinF]

@KevinF , just use a carabiner and clip the liners on the outside of the boot bag. You’ll never forget them. Won’t work if there’s no pull straps though.

That solution is so obvious that I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it before...

 

[dbostedo]

That solution is so obvious that I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it before...

Kind of?

 

[James]

That solution is so obvious that I'm kind of embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it before...

Well... perhaps we’ll have a late non- gathering meeting where we walk up. Okemo has the ability to drive, then short not steep walk, for a 30% run. Lameish, but it’s there. Snow could be an issue. Or, we all get skining equip.

 

[Nobody]

I have skied in shop graded boots and liner's for most of my skiing life. The one plug boot I used (Tecnica xt17) from 2007 to 2016 did not have lace up liner's.
Never gave lace ups a thought for downhill skiing until I purchased AT boots (Tecnica Zero G Guide), at that point realized anew (had lace up boots in a pair of very old Dachstein AT boots I used in the '80s of last century) that a lace up liner's is better for performance. Then last year I purchased a pair of race boot with lace up (Dalbello SC, SS stiffness grade). Again, much more performing and much easier to put boots on sliding foot and liner into the boot shell than foot into liner and shell. Also, had a specific SIDAS foot bed. Although a bit colder...
As these were too stiff for normal"technical skiing" and my Tecnica 9.8r in 110 (non lace up liner's equipped) were getting a tad too wide (due to liner's packing up after three seasons of intense use) and liking the Dalbello boots, I found a second hand DalbelloDRS in 110 stiffness to use for everyday skiing (same BSL as the WCs, one/one and a half size down my Tecnica). As it turned out, these had partial lace up liner's, unfortunately the combo revealed itself stiffer than the old Tecnica...enough that rather than flexing down the boot when needed, I was sending up in the back seat! Needing to correct this fast (I was facing an exam), desperate measures were called for, and I ended up skiing a Frankenstein boot (Tecnica shell, Dalbello DRS liner's). To complete the Frankenstein, I inserted the SIDAS foot bed into the combo as the standard drs foot bed was taking up too much room away from my toes...
Still the Tecnica shell was too soft and giving in at high speed (in long turns). Hope, by next season, to have adapted to the stiffer Dalbello shell/DalbelloDRS like drs combo, not to get in the backseat anymore, as the additional stiffness (given mostly by the liner, but not on!y) could help in the long turns...

 

[vindibona1]

I'm contemplating lace-ups for next season and out of curiousity contacted Intuition, inquiring which of their liners they recommended. They came back with a recommendation of the Dreamliner. When filling out their form I indicated that I didn't want to stiffen the flex of my boots and more warmth would also be wanted.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the Intuition Dreamliner? Other liner suggestions? Again, I'm looking for performance, comfort, warmth, but no additional stiffness.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Again, I'm looking for performance, comfort, warmth, but no additional stiffness.

You need to pick 2 out of 4 from the above I am afraid.
Need to decide for yourself what the main priority is because comfort+warmth on one side and performance on the other are mutually exclusive.

 

[Steve]

I used Intuition liners for years. In my case the Race FX. I liked them, but they do pack out over time. They don't last a ton of days.

I recently bought a pair of Zipfits from Noodler who told me they last for a really long time, and just seeing how they're made it makes sense. The Intuition is just foam, the Zipfits are Leather (and other materials.)

My big toes get cold. If it's in the 20's or below I put chemical warmers on the top of my toes which does the trick. I don't feel the Zipfits are particularly less or more warm, possibly a little warmer, but not much. Certainly not colder.

Performance on the Zipfits to me is superior to the Intuitions and they didn't stiffen up my boots.

 

[Wendy]

I use a pair of Nordica Doberman lace ups that I got from Billy Kaplan, a pedorthist/bootfitter here in PA. The tongue, which was formed separately, really keeps my heel down in the pocket. The first time I put them on, I needed a second person to help. The next day I warmed the shell, and I had gotten some silicon spray at Christy’s, which works like the boot horn.

Performance and comfort are great and worth the hassle of putting them on. That said, I may still get @James Zipfits if he still has them as a spare pair.

 

[Nobody]

Maybe a compromise between performances and comfort, particularly for on-groomers free-skiing (e.g. non racing) might be a standard "shop graded boot" (e.g. non race plug models with a 93mm last and very stiff plastics) with a last of 96-98mm and a partial lace up liner (I know for sure that Dalbello and Tecnica do offer this option, maybe others too).

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm contemplating lace-ups for next season and out of curiousity contacted Intuition, inquiring which of their liners they recommended. They came back with a recommendation of the Dreamliner. When filling out their form I indicated that I didn't want to stiffen the flex of my boots and more warmth would also be wanted.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the Intuition Dreamliner? Other liner suggestions? Again, I'm looking for performance, comfort, warmth, but no additional stiffness.

I hate the Dreamliner.

The foam is so soft it actually deadens boot feel.

The tongue has no external stiffness and either feels dead (with buckles loose) or you can feel the boot buckles print through the liner onto the shin if the buckles are tight .

Laces don't do anything to improve heel hold. All of this is objectionable in the MV version, and even worse in the LV (thin wall) version.

I feel that any stock sewn, lace up liner would be better than a Dreamliner for control, for boot feel and for durability. The only reason to have a Dreamliner would be instant comfort in a problematic shell. And the first modification I would do is to stitch or glue a stiffening sheet to the outside of the tongue.

I've been an Intuition fanboi since the days of the old Raichle Santa Claus liners; I wanted to believe in Dreamliner several times over, but it has yet to show itself worthy.


IMO and YMMV, of course.

 

[James]

I hate the Dreamliner.

The foam is so soft it actually deadens boot feel.

The tongue has no external stiffness and either feels dead (with buckles loose) or you can feel the boot buckles print through the liner onto the shin if the buckles are tight .

Laces don't do anything to improve heel hold. All of this is objectionable in the MV version, and even worse in the LV (thin wall) version.

I feel that any stock sewn, lace up liner would be better than a Dreamliner for control, for boot feel and for durability. The only reason to have a Dreamliner would be instant comfort in a problematic shell.

IMO and YMMV, of course. And, yes, I've been an Intuition fanboi since the days of the old Raichle Santa Claus liners.

The Intuition Pro Tongue, red, of a few years ago, is just as bad. Went back to a Dobermann.

 

[KevinF]

The Intuition Pro Tongue, red, of a few years ago, is just as bad. Went back to a Dobermann.

I had those at one point... I absolutely could not ski in them.

I have the Intuition Pro Tour liners in my touring boots; something about them just feels very wrong to me as well.

 

[vindibona1]

Well.. I guess the Dreamliner is out. Thanks Cantunamunch. I have concerns about the Intuition liners as I had one of the original wrap liners years ago when they were a Raichle option (I had the 2nd gen Raichle Flexon boots. I know they've improved them quite a bit since.

I suppose at this moment it's all unimportant as our current pandemic/economic crisis has put all non-essential purchases on hold. Who knows where this all will be come next November. But I appreciate the info. I guess this helps mentally lengthen the season even if the actual skiing is done for now.

 

[Steve]

The Intuition Race FX liners worked very well for me for a few years before I upgraded to Zipfits.

 

[Noodler]

The Intuition Race FX liners worked very well for me for a few years before I upgraded to Zipfits.

That was one of the better Intuition liners. The Plug Race liner is probably the best from their current model line-up. IMHO

 

[bbinder]

I have just put the Race HD liners in my boots and only have a couple of days on them. They have a stiffer foam than the FX liner. So far, I really like them.

 

[James]

Some years back they made a race liner for Dalbello that had a much stiffer tongue. Never skied it, but handled it.
Last year in Chamonix at BootLab they had a liner that was made for them, had a stiff plastic piece on the tongue. Looked good, the tongue at least. The owner said they were very responsive to deal with.

How all these co’s have forgotten how to make tongues is beyond me. I still want to try unseeing the Intuition tongue, and putting in a Doberman tongue.

 

[dbostedo]

Some years back they made a race liner for Dalbello that had a much stiffer tongue. Never skied it, but handled it.
Last year in Chamonix at BootLab they had a liner that was made for them, had a stiff plastic piece on the tongue. Looked good, the tongue at least. The owner said they were very responsive to deal with.

How all these co’s have forgotten how to make tongues is beyond me. I still want to try unseeing the Intuition tongue, and putting in a Doberman tongue.

Weren't you messing with swapping liner tongues around at last year's NEG?

 

[Noodler]

Some years back they made a race liner for Dalbello that had a much stiffer tongue. Never skied it, but handled it.
Last year in Chamonix at BootLab they had a liner that was made for them, had a stiff plastic piece on the tongue. Looked good, the tongue at least. The owner said they were very responsive to deal with.

How all these co’s have forgotten how to make tongues is beyond me. I still want to try unseeing the Intuition tongue, and putting in a Doberman tongue.

The tongue is the best part of the Intuition Plug Race liner. Hard plastic support, but still has the customization and comfort of an Intuition.