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Kids: from Straight to Turning

Ivan

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My 4.5 year old son can ski pretty confidently in a straight line (here is a video from the end of last season), but I've had limited success with teaching him how to turn, control his speed, and stop. He is pretty athletic overall (goes to a gymnastics class once a week), can maintain his balance well (on skis as well as on his bike without training wheels), seems to love speed, but just does not seem to be interested in turning. I am curious what would be the best way to teach him how to turn, and whether I should try to teach him to do a pizza first or try to go directly to to parallel. Or should I just relax and enjoy time on the mountain with him, given that he is having fun and has plenty of time ahead to learn?
 

Mendieta

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This! :D

Or should I just relax and enjoy time on the mountain with him, given that he is having fun and has plenty of time ahead to learn?

The overwhelming advice I've heard from Instructors (Including about my youngest, who started at 7) was that young kids learn very differently than adults (the younger the other, the more pronounced the difference is). And two other things: kids love skiing with, and learn from, other kids.

So, my humble suggestion is to try to find a mountain with a nice kids program, let your little angel ski with the program part of the day (say, mornings), and then spend time having fun with her, doing whatever he wants. :)

BTW, you realize you are living the dream :yahoo:
 

Coach13

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I am curious what would be the best way to teach him how to turn, and whether I should try to teach him to do a pizza first or try to go directly to to parallel. Or should I just relax and enjoy time on the mountain with him, given that he is having fun and has plenty of time ahead to learn?

I’m no ski instructor but I think “all of the above” when I read this. Kids are great visual learners and love games, so I’d start with some “follow me” stuff on a gentle slope where you lead the way to select a line and turn shape you feel is appropriate. I think in time you will see the results and he will get it. I wouldn’t worry too much about the pizza vs parallel thing ss I think it will sort itself out. A lesson with a kids program would also go a long way imo.
 
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Ivan

Ivan

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@Coach13 @Mendieta Thanks for the input! Re kids programs, we tried it at our home resort (Greek Peak), and while our son loved it, it didn't seem to help much. The program we tried was intended primarily for total beginners, so they never made it past the smallest bunny hill (where there isn't really any incentive to turn), and other kids skied less confidently than our son. Ideally, I would love to find a nice kids program where other kids would ski better than our son and he would be able to learn from them, but I'm not sure there is one at our mountain.
 

Jilly

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So he's already been in a learn to ski program....what about a learn to race. Then there will have to be turns. So what about watching some races on TV and see if there is any interest?

That said, a friend of mine had similar issue with her young son. But he was jumping off and into the trees all the time. Put him in slopestyle classes.. He's now in France competing for Canada....
 
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Ivan

Ivan

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So he's already been in a learn to ski program....what about a learn to race. Then there will have to be turns. So what about watching some races on TV and see if there is any interest?

That said, a friend of mine had similar issue with her young son. But he was jumping off and into the trees all the time. Put him in slopestyle classes.. He's now in France competing for Canada....
Thanks for the advice! Our resort's race program starts at 6 years old, so we would have to wait a couple of years before joining it. However, if anyone knows another good program in the area, I would be happy to look into it. I've talked with @ADKmel and may try going to her resort and taking a lesson for my son there once or twice, but I'm not sure we will be able to do that on a regular basis (it's a 2+ hour drive vs. a 40 minute drive for Greek Peak).
 

LiquidFeet

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Little kids don't normally turn on their own. They like to go straight. An adult needs to guide them to turn.

Can you ski backwards? If not, learn. If you can ski a straight run backwards in a wedge, you can make turns in a backwards wedge. Simply shorten/bend one leg and you'll turn.

Ski backwards in front of your boy, with you always making turns. Ask him to ski to you. Ski away a little, and let him catch up with you. It can be a game of tag. You can hold a pole horizontally in front of you with two hands and have him tag the pole. Or you can leave the pole at the base and he can tag one of your hands when he catches up to you.

You won't have to tell him how to turn; his body will figure out how to get to you, just like it did when he took his first steps. He'll probably be making parallel turns. If you have him turn far enough across the hill to come to a stop, he'll learn to stop without ever using a wedge. If this process works, don't let him learn the wedge, and don't let him go straight down the hill any more. You can start skiing in front of him with you going forward, drawing a line in the snow with your poles for him to follow. Drag the pole tips between your feet to make the line in the snow. If you find yourself speeding away from him, use a wedge to slow down. This does not necessarily mean he'll start using the wedge. You hope. His only goal is to keep his skis on the line you draw in the snow.

Keep him working with you on his parallel turns until he's pretty firm in his use of that parallel stance before you put him in a kids' program. When you do, tell the teacher you don't want him taught to make wedge turns. Be firm in this. Good luck!
 
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Ivan

Ivan

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Little kids don't normally turn on their own. They like to go straight. An adult needs to guide them to turn.

Can you ski backwards? If not, learn. If you can ski a straight run backwards in a wedge, you can make turns in a backwards wedge. Simply shorten/bend one leg and you'll turn.

Ski backwards in front of your boy, with you always making turns. Ask him to ski to you. Ski away a little, and let him catch up with you. It can be a game of tag. You can hold a pole horizontally in front of you with two hands and have him tag the pole. Or you can leave the pole at the base and he can tag one of your hands when he catches up to you.

You won't have to tell him how to turn; his body will figure out how to get to you, just like it did when he took his first steps. He'll probably be making parallel turns. If you have him turn far enough across the hill to come to a stop, he'll learn to stop without ever using a wedge. If this process works, don't let him learn the wedge, and don't let him go straight down the hill any more. You can start skiing in front of him forward, drawing a line in the snow with your poles for him to follow. Drag the pole tips between your feet to make the line in the snow. If you tend to speed away from him, use a wedge to slow down. This does not mean he'll start using the wedge; his goal is to keep his skis on the line in the snow.

Keep him working with you on his parallel turnsuntil he's pretty firm in his use of thatstance before you put him in a kids' program. When you do, tell the teacher you don't want him taught to make wedge turns. Be firm in this.
Thanks a lot, this is very helpful. Yes, I can ski backwards, and I can certainly try doing what you suggested. I like the idea of skipping the wedge, if possible. He does not seem to like it, and I don't want to force him to learn something he will have to unlearn later on.

I should probably mention that snow conditions don't really help this year. The weather is very warm, the slope does not hold up well, and we get to the mountain relatively late in the morning (we have a little one, so our logistics is somewhat complicated). I feel like it's a lot easier for him to ski on hard packed groomed snow (as opposed to slushy snow), but we've really had it only once so far this season.
 

Chris V.

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I looked at that video with considerable trepidation, but then what I saw--no power wedge, good balance, independent foot action--at age 3 1/2! Great start!

Small children don't take detailed instructions well. The challenge is how to go out and do what's fun, but gently guide them into new and better movements. Just one idea for you. Creating feelings, being hands on is great, but the trouble is if you touch little children they turn to jelly. Try skiing side by side with your son, each holding on to opposite ends of a ski pole. Now start doing little swoopy turns. It's dancing, and you're leading. It's tactile. At 4 1/2, I would bet your son would love having that kind of contact with you.

Echoing LiquidFeet, you need to keep him out of certain ski schools. No wedging for him! Later, after he's ingrained good habits, it will be safer having him around potential bad influences.
 

Scrundy

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You must be close to me, I’m 45 minutes south of Greek. My kid 8 did the Greek learn to ski thing 2 years ago. She didn’t show much interest in skiing so I didn’t push it on her, but got her out a couple times last year. This season got her out and now she’s hooked, I try to get her out twice a week. My advice is just make sure you teach him the basics let him figure it out. My girl wanted to straight line it too but I made I clear if you want off the bunny slope you need to learn to turn to control speed.
She figured it out and now is a turning fool who try’s to hit every feature she can. Also at least in my case she’s very competitive and her seeing other kid skiing well motivated her. Nothing beats time on snow, the more he get out the better he’ll be.
 

SkiSchoolPros

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He looks good...as others have said, provide a motivation to turn (like small jumps with a turn required to get to the next one.)
She figured it out and now is a turning fool who try’s to hit every feature she can.
 
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Ivan

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A quick update. We went skiing today in the evening, it was too dark and bumpy in order for me to ski backwards in front of him (I couldn't really see where we were going, and he was a bit scared), but I tried the thing @Chris V. suggested. I told my son that my pole is a magnet that holds us together, I was holding one end and he was holding the other. We managed to turn fairly well, and he really enjoyed it. Will try this more, and will certainly try to let him do this on his own when the conditions are better.
 

crgildart

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As mentioned, really young kids have different priorities and goals than older kids and adults do with regard to activities. Fun and enjoyment comes first, lest you risk them associating something so fun for us as something they don't enjoy.

As for the kids programs.. That's as much for us adults as it is for the kids. It gives us grown up ski time while they are being properly cared for, supervised, and taught at their own pace. That way everyone gets to ski how they want to ski for a couple hours. Then take a couple laps with them after on their terms before calling it a day.
 

Mike-AT

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My younger daugther is 4.5 as well now. We put her into kids ski school last year for the first time (5-6 days I think) and she had a super fun time. I think from day 2 on they start working on turning. Probably all ski schools (in Austria at least) start with the snow plough and that's what she used/uses. This year she is already skiing blue/red (easy/med) slopes with us on her own.

Interestingly enough both my daugthers always wanted to turn. I watched your video @Ivan and I think they never skied in a straight line as long as your boy did here. He seems to like speed :) Maybe because my kids are girls and afraid of speed?

Keep it fun and challenging. On most of our beginner slopes we have "mini race" parcours with comic figures, flowers or mushroom-style gates. Kids love it and of course they have to work out their way through it. They figure out turning so fast especially with the shaped skis (my guess).

No idea how bad the snow plough is for later success, but I heard in many videos that the progression from snow plough to carving is much easier (closer) than having old (straight ski) bad habits like heel pushing. The wedge brings security for kids because they know they have a stable position in case they need it. Edit: Of course they also teach proper drills to load the (new) outside ski, like the (reversed) airplane turning or touching the boot to put weight on it.
I'll try to teach my bigger daugther to ski parallel this year (she is 6.5) so we'll see.

Don't put him under pressure and out of his comfort zome too much, and enjoy!
 
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Ivan

Ivan

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Thank you everyone for your responses. A couple of brief comments.

@François Pugh Your suggestion about follow the leader echoes what @LiquidFeet wrote. I'll definitely try that (either skiing backwards or forward, whatever works better) when my son feels like it. I don't want to complain about conditions over and over again, but it has been very warm recently and the run does not hold up well. My son is less comfortable when it's slushy and/or bumpy, and I don't want to push him out of the comfort zone too much. Once it's colder and grooming holds up better, it will be easier to try new things with him.

@crgildart I totally get the point that ski schools are as much for us as they are for kids, but my work schedule it fairly flexible, so I can go skiing alone on a weekday and ski with my son on a weekend, and I'm less pressed about having time to ski on my own. Also, when I was growing up, there were pretty much no ski schools in Russia, so my sister and I always skied with our parents.

@Mike-AT The problem with the ski school at our resort is that when we tried it, they took kids to a less that 100 feet (or 30 meters) long bunny slope, let them ski there, but didn't really teach anything new. I'm all in for a ski school if it gently teaches kids to ski better, but it just doesn't make a lot of sense to pay quite a lot of money (the price includes equipment rentals, and even though we have our own skis, boots, and helmet, but there are no discounts for us) if it doesn't teach anything new. Sorry if that sounds a bit grumpy :) Btw, I've been to Austria three times (though it was long ago), and based on what I've seen, ski schools at Austrian resorts are typically very good.
 

Mendieta

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I love these last two posts by @crgildart and @Mike-AT . I am a newer skier and certainly a bad one. But when I talk to people who grew up skiing, nobody ever told me about their parallel skiing at a young age (neither have I ever, ever seen a very young kid carve on parallel edges). It's always fond memories of past times. A happy kid will ski for life. I think you (@Ivan) are on the right track, you need your boy to turn. Fun ideas to make him follow you, follow other kids, and good instruction for HIS age, is all good. But it's just one word. FUN. (imho)
 

James

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Many, many kids at that age just like to go straight.
For stopping, teach a turn uphill.
Don’t associate “turning” with slowing. Where’s the fun in that?
Associate turning with going where you want to go. Which is what it’s for.
Speed control should come from where you turn to- uphill, in varying degrees. You never have to brake if you can manage the line you take. (True at all levels)

Obviously, at some point, depending on your terrain, one needs to learn braking.

Use the liking of speed for the fun in turning. Every time you turn downhill, you go faster. Just develop staying with that turn, like a rollercoaster, and riding it out.
 

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