Keep repairing 2002 Honda CRV vs buy new car now?

[luliski]

I have a 2002 Honda CRV EX with just over 150,000 miles on it. It is a manual transmission (probably the last one I'll own), AWD, and has been a great car.

In the past few years I've had a few problems with the car, the most expensive being the check engine light, which goes on and off. I have been told I need a new catalytic converter, but if I use premium gas, the light doesn't usually go on, and the car passed California smog tests last February (the check engine light has been going on and off for at least 4 years). Replacing the catalytic converter at the dealer would be $3119.

Another problem is the suspension: I need front strut assemblies, front lower ball joints, and compliance bushings. Altogether the suspension work would be $1613 (including alignment). I'm not sure how urgent the suspension work is.

They have also recommended all coolant hose and thermostats be replaced (due to age) for $920.

Then there's the drive belt which is frayed. Replacement is $164.

And there's a small oil leak which will be at least $380 to fix.

The most recent and urgent problem is the the radiator and condenser fan belts need replacing for $1245.

I should probably just get a new car, but I'm not quite ready to buy. I'm just finishing up helping my daughter with her college education, and want to save some more money before buying a car.

I'm also considering getting the new Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid Plug-in, but I haven't had time to figure out if I should do that vs just the Crosstrek (my first choice for a new car, although I haven't driven one yet).

I'm thinking about just getting the radiator and condenser fan belts replaced (those caused it to overheat and have to be towed) and the drive belt replaced, and then fixing one other problem every month or so (with the exception of the catalytic converter), and hoping it will last through the summer or even until the next time it has to be smogged (probably next February).

So I would be paying more than a car payment would be for a few months, but saving on insurance and registration costs, and hopefully getting my car to a point where it would have some trade-in value.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice. Thanks in advance.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I love, love, love my Crosstrek. I get anywhere from 30-40 mpg depending on how much highway driving I'm doing. Not a hybrid obviously but coming from a Jeep Wrangler I'm pretty stoked on my mileage.

I got rid of my Sebring when my costs of repairs went above and beyond what a car payment would be. I was dishing out waaaaay more in repairs than any car payment on a car under full warranty would ever cost.

I don't ever take my car to the dealership, I have a local mechanic I trust that does all my work so that helps.

There's no guaranty that you'll ever get your car to the status quo point because you might get all caught up when nothings wrong but then you are just essentially for the other shoe to drop. That just seems like a lot of $$ output on a car that's almost 20 years old. You just have to decide when it's not worth it any longer to play the repair roulette game.

Lots of ways to get a good deal on a car, I bought mine last September when the 2019s were already out so I got the last 2018 in my color and they wanted it off the lot so were willing to deal. Also a good suggestion to trade your car in for something newer, not brand new but a few years old. Might be a compromise between what you have now and a brand new car.

That's just my $.02

 

[trailtrimmer]

Stealership prices for all the work I assume? They are taking you to the cleaners.

If you have never had an oxygen sensor replaced, it's likely the CE light cause, not the catalyst itself.

You should be able to get a radiator and all the belts for under $700.

Find another mechanic, get another quote, then ask the new car question.

 

[river-z]

I have a 2002 CR-V as well (not the awd version). I got mine a few years ago with the transmission already replaced. I don't drive it very far. The suspension is in bad shape. I feel for you...

For the same cost of repairs you could probably get another CR-V that's 10 years newer? Not as nice as a new car but functional.

 

[coskigirl]

Have you looked into what making the repairs would do for your trade in value? It might be less than you spend to make them, especially if you're not able to get better pricing from an independent mechanic.

 

[Near Nyquist]

We got the 1999 CRV EX
Bought new, always maintained
Has 111K

The thing runs like a sewing machine

1) don't take it to the dealer look for a local Honda mechanic, I am the local mechanic in my household everything above is simple stuff

2) it's cheaper to keep her if you get reasonable repair costs

3) if you got new caritis then you are just screwed, only cure is a new car

4) don't get a hybrid if you drive back n forth to Tahoe, really just don't. You need to go up 80 on a powder day

 

[luliski]

I don't ever take my car to the dealership, I have a local mechanic I trust that does all my work so that helps.

I used to take it to a local mechanic, but when I had AC problems, he sent me to the dealership because he knew it was a known problem with my year CRV and the dealership should replace it even though no longer under warranty (which they did for almost free). I should have gone back to him (good guy), but the dealership was just more convenient to deal with.

There's no guaranty that you'll ever get your car to the status quo point because you might get all caught up when nothings wrong but then you are just essentially for the other shoe to drop. That just seems like a lot of $$ output on a car that's almost 20 years old. You just have to decide when it's not worth it any longer to play the repair roulette game.

If I did all the repairs at the cost quoted, I wouldn't recoup it, that's true. I really just want to do enough to keep it running for another 6 months or so, and then trade in or sell.

Stealership prices for all the work I assume? They are taking you to the cleaners.

If you have never had an oxygen sensor replaced, it's likely the CE light cause, not the catalyst itself.

You should be able to get a radiator and all the belts for under $700.

Yes, the local Honda dealer. I have been wondering about their pricing. I think I'll check with the guy who used to be my local mechanic. He's so busy that you have to e-mail for an appointment.

The "service advisor" I talked to this time said the code reads oxygen sensor this time, but sometimes they tell me it's the catalytic converter (different dealerships too).

Good to know about reasonable pricing, thanks.

For the same cost of repairs you could probably get another CR-V that's 10 years newer? Not as nice as a new car but functional.

Yeah, I just don't want to deal with used car shopping.

Have you looked into what making the repairs would do for your trade in value? It might be less than you spend to make them, especially if you're not able to get better pricing from an independent mechanic.

I think you're right.

We got the 1999 CRV EX
Bought new, always maintained
Has 111K

The thing runs like a sewing machine

1) don't take it to the dealer look for a local Honda mechanic, I am the local mechanic in my household everything above is simple stuff

2) it's cheaper to keep her if you get reasonable repair costs

3) if you got new caritis then you are just screwed, only cure is a new car

4) don't get a hybrid if you drive back n forth to Tahoe, really just don't. You need to go up 80 on a powder day

Will you sell me your CRV or can I hire you to work on mine?

Eventually I will get a new car, but I like my CRV and would like to keep her a little longer.

Why? Do hybrids not work in the snow?

 

[Decreed_It]

So - you have a 2002 CRV that, apart from the list of maintenance items, sounds like you love and is working for you. The magic sauce here is 'TCO' or total cost of ownership.

Agree your dealership (Stealership they're called 'round these parts ) is pricing this work WAAAAY too high. Those prices are insane. The flipside is accessibility to a good, trusted, local mechanic - and that sounds iffy for you. If you can get an independent to do the work - worth looking into. Then all those things will be fixed, you'll know exactly what you have and with a Honda - keep doing oil changes for the next 135k miles!

New cars - ugh man you lose 20% (ok maybe not on a Subaru) as soon as you drive off the lot. Insurance, taxes way higher. But new is oh so nice. All the bells and whistles and creature comforts are sweet indeed. However, a 2020 Subaru is *likely* not a lifer for 150k like your 2002 Honda, to make a gross generalization. Lots more complicated electronic computer bits that get *really* expensive to replace as age and miles add up.

Then finally you should figure in the opportunity cost of that money you spend on that shiny new car. How much skiing/debt paydown/retirement savings/fun times is that?

You sound like a long term relationship with a car person. I'd fix the Honda and save the cash.

 

[Eleeski]

Drive it until it drops. OK, fan belts are kind of consumable and should be fixed, the corner mechanic should be able to do that reasonably (my smog guy does mine for a zero less than the dealer). You have a while before smog runs out. Reassess if it fails smog. Make sure you pay for a pre test - don't get an official fail. Old cars fail smog to become undriveable.

Don't waste money on hull insurance, oil changes (do check it but getting rid of the sludge will exacerbate the leaking), fluid replacement, struts or even tires (used tires if one goes bad). Good chance of getting a year and a half until the smog certificate runs out. Religiously put a couple hundred in a new car account every month. You should amass a decent chunk of money towards a new car. At least you'll be used to the payments.

New cars rock. Backup cameras, cell phone Bluetooth to the radio, blind spot warning, dependable reliability, fuel economy, safety and that new car smell! Technology has improved cars a lot in a short time. Self driving cars are not available yet but it probably won't be worth holding out for one.

Your manual transmission might be the only reason to keep the car forever. Not available in new cars. Bummer.

Good luck!

Eric

 

[luliski]

So - you have a 2002 CRV that, apart from the list of maintenance items, sounds like you love and is working for you. The magic sauce here is 'TCO' or total cost of ownership.

Agree your dealership (Stealership they're called 'round these parts ) is pricing this work WAAAAY too high. Those prices are insane. The flipside is accessibility to a good, trusted, local mechanic - and that sounds iffy for you. If you can get an independent to do the work - worth looking into. Then all those things will be fixed, you'll know exactly what you have and with a Honda - keep doing oil changes for the next 135k miles!

New cars - ugh man you lose 20% (ok maybe not on a Subaru) as soon as you drive off the lot. Insurance, taxes way higher. But new is oh so nice. All the bells and whistles and creature comforts are sweet indeed. However, a 2020 Subaru is *likely* not a lifer for 150k like your 2002 Honda, to make a gross generalization. Lots more complicated electronic computer bits that get *really* expensive to replace as age and miles add up.

Then finally you should figure in the opportunity cost of that money you spend on that shiny new car. How much skiing/debt paydown/retirement savings/fun times is that?

You sound like a long term relationship with a car person. I'd fix the Honda and save the cash.

I wonder if California repair costs are higher? I do love my CRV, but eventually the reliability factor will kick in and I'll want to get something else. If I'm constantly worrying about something going wrong on road trips or drives to the mountains, it won't be worth keeping it. I would also love something more fuel-efficient. That is the other factor driving me get a new car eventually (but preferably not yet).

 

[luliski]

Don't waste money on hull insurance, oil changes (do check it but getting rid of the sludge will exacerbate the leaking), fluid replacement, struts or even tires (used tires if one goes bad)

What is hull insurance? I never thought of that with the oil changes. I get them regularly and no one ever told me I had a leak until this recent overheating incident. One other thing I didn't mention is that the "service advisor" said that the AC isn't working now. It was working before the radiator and compressor fans went, so I'm hoping that if those are fixed the AC will work. I can't live where I live with no AC in my car. As for tires, I have brand new Michelin X-Ices on it.

 

[François Pugh]

Your car is 17 years old. It's best to give it to charity the next time it needs a major repair. I understand the urge to keep a car you like (I hung onto my Chevy Caprice Wagon far too long), but unless you know a good mechanic, or are one and have time to do the work yourself it's best not to keep a car beyond 15 years. With the right deal, payments on a new one are cheaper than repairs on the antique.

Your prices are way too high. If you check with a local muffler shop and some car parts stores you can save a bundle.

Overheating? You didn't mention that in the original post. Overheating can cause a lot of other damage if unattended.

Ball joints - depends on how badly worn. You could end up having a wheel half fall off leaving you waiting for a tow (I assume you are capable of controlling the car with the other three wheels without crashing into something).
Radiator and all hoses - you could probably do yourself; it's pretty simple.

Timing belt - it must be time to change that! Don't leave it undone.

Other drive belts- you should do them; it's not that expensive.

Heater core - it's a little radiator just like the big one that's failing, but stuck in a hard to get at place, although they usually last twice as long as the rad, they don't last forever. Sometimes they spring a leek and other times they just plug up and you freeze.

Engine light - get a code reading tool (not a multi-thousand dollar laptop diagnostic computer- just a $100 on sale OBD1-OBD2 code reader, e.g. https://www.innova.com/en-US/Product/List/87448f82-f9a3-4c87-9384-4c0dea8a7168?r=0.3891453676810014 ) and see what it really says. You would be surprised at the stories I've heard from stealerships .

Air con not working - not a good $ign.

In summary you have a bunch of known problems and most likely a few hidden problems.

I would just inspect the hoses, replace the rad and any rotten hoses, see how much play is in the ball joints and replace if they would otherwise likely cause your wheels to fall off, replace the belts (including timing belt if due). If not competent to make those judgement calls (hose is solid or rotten, ball joint allows too much play in wheel), then take it to your previous mechanic who was honest enough to steer you to the stealership for the warranty repair, and ask him to do that for you. Then drive until next major repair, while looking for a deal on a new car. There is a reason people pay more for new cars; they are worth more.

 

[luliski]

Your car is 17 years old. It's best to give it to charity the next time it needs a major repair. I understand the urge to keep a car you like (I hung onto my Chevy Caprice Wagon far too long), but unless you know a good mechanic, or are one and have time to do the work yourself it's best not to keep a car beyond 15 years. With the right deal, payments on a new one are cheaper than repairs on the antique.

Your prices are way too high. If you check with a local muffler shop and some car parts stores you can save a bundle.

Overheating? You didn't mention that in the original post. Overheating can cause a lot of other damage if unattended.

Ball joints - depends on how badly worn. You could end up having a wheel half fall off leaving you waiting for a tow (I assume you are capable of controlling the car with the other three wheels without crashing into something).
Radiator and all hoses - you could probably do yourself; it's pretty simple.

Timing belt - it must be time to change that! Don't leave it undone.

Other drive belts- you should do them; it's not that expensive.

Heater core - it's a little radiator just like the big one that's failing, but stuck in a hard to get at place, although they usually last twice as long as the rad, they don't last forever. Sometimes they spring a leek and other times they just plug up and you freeze.

Engine light - get a code reading tool (not a multi-thousand dollar laptop diagnostic computer- just a $100 on sale OBD1-OBD2 code reader, e.g. https://www.innova.com/en-US/Product/List/87448f82-f9a3-4c87-9384-4c0dea8a7168?r=0.3891453676810014 ) and see what it really says. You would be surprised at the stories I've heard from stealerships .

Air con not working - not a good $ign.

In summary you have a bunch of known problems and most likely a few hidden problems.

I would just inspect the hoses, replace the rad and any rotten hoses, see how much play is in the ball joints and replace if they would otherwise likely cause your wheels to fall off, replace the belts (including timing belt if due). If not competent to make those judgement calls (hose is solid or rotten, ball joint allows too much play in wheel), then take it to your previous mechanic who was honest enough to steer you to the stealership for the warranty repair, and ask him to do that for you. Then drive until next major repair, while looking for a deal on a new car. There is a reason people pay more for new cars; they are worth more.

I'm going to take it to the old mechanic next week. I would love to learn how to do the simple work myself, but life is too busy for that now. I had it towed after it overheated this week and the diagnosis was condenser and radiator motor fans need to be replaced. Engine was not damaged. I'm hoping AC problem will resolve if the fans are replaced. But the overheating is what landed it in the shop with the latest diagnosis.

 

[Eleeski]

Hull insurance = insurance that pays you to fix your car after a wreck. On a new car, necessary! Required if you have a loan. On an old beater, just get liability insurance.

Your list of problems sounds like you did drive it until it dropped. Pour enough water in it to drive it to a guaranteed trade in dealer and get a new car. Don't spend a bunch of money (any?) on it. If it looks nice, your mechanic might be a good buyer.

Good luck.

Eric

 

[luliski]

Hull insurance = insurance that pays you to fix your car after a wreck. On a new car, necessary! Required if you have a loan. On an old beater, just get liability insurance.

Yes, have had limited insurance on it for years. That's part of the appeal of keeping it. No car payments, low insurance and low registration costs are nice. I'll see what the independent mechanic says.

Your comment about the water reminds me of my old VW Fox, which overheated when I was driving over the Grapevine to visit my parents in Encinitas. On the way there, I just poured more coolant in; on the way home, I had to get towed to Bakersfield, with a three year old with a broken arm. That was an eventful trip.

 

[Bill Talbot]

I have a 2002 Honda CRV EX with just over 150,000 miles on it. It is a manual transmission (probably the last one I'll own), AWD, and has been a great car.

In the past few years I've had a few problems with the car, the most expensive being the check engine light, which goes on and off. I have been told I need a new catalytic converter, but if I use premium gas, the light doesn't usually go on, and the car passed California smog tests last February (the check engine light has been going on and off for at least 4 years). Replacing the catalytic converter at the dealer would be $3119.

Another problem is the suspension: I need front strut assemblies, front lower ball joints, and compliance bushings. Altogether the suspension work would be $1613 (including alignment). I'm not sure how urgent the suspension work is.

They have also recommended all coolant hose and thermostats be replaced (due to age) for $920.

Then there's the drive belt which is frayed. Replacement is $164.

And there's a small oil leak which will be at least $380 to fix.

The most recent and urgent problem is the the radiator and condenser fan belts need replacing for $1245.

I should probably just get a new car, but I'm not quite ready to buy. I'm just finishing up helping my daughter with her college education, and want to save some more money before buying a car.

I'm also considering getting the new Subaru Crosstrek Hybrid Plug-in, but I haven't had time to figure out if I should do that vs just the Crosstrek (my first choice for a new car, although I haven't driven one yet).

I'm thinking about just getting the radiator and condenser fan belts replaced (those caused it to overheat and have to be towed) and the drive belt replaced, and then fixing one other problem every month or so (with the exception of the catalytic converter), and hoping it will last through the summer or even until the next time it has to be smogged (probably next February).

So I would be paying more than a car payment would be for a few months, but saving on insurance and registration costs, and hopefully getting my car to a point where it would have some trade-in value.

I would appreciate any thoughts or advice. Thanks in advance.

First, stay out of the Honda dealerships! Once you are out of warranty all they will do is cost you too much money. Find a local independent garage that does a fair amount of Honda business.

If you like the car and with the fairly low mileage by Honda standards, do what have to get done to keep it safely on the road. This is where a good honest shop can help you greatly.

Taxes, insurance and depreciation are all a new car will get you... If you must down the road, look at 4-5 year old cars. These are the sweet spot to start a new car relationship.

Myself, my 'new' car is 9 years old, it has 29 and 32 year year old stablemates...

 

[luliski]

First, stay out of the Honda dealerships! Once you are out of warranty all they will do is cost you too much money. Find a local independent garage that does a fair amount of Honda business.

If you like the car and with the fairly low mileage by Honda standards, do what have to get done to keep it safely on the road. This is where a good honest shop can help you greatly.

Taxes, insurance and depreciation are all a new car will get you... If you must down the road, look at 4-5 year old cars. These are the sweet spot to start a new car relationship.

Myself, my 'new' car is 9 years old, it has 29 and 32 year year old stablemates...

I know it makes financial sense to buy a "new" used car, but I just can't put in the time required to find a good one right now. I've only bought 4 cars in 33 years; 3 new and one used. The most recent new one is a 2014 Subaru Impreza. My daughter has that one, and I'm going to let her keep it when she graduates this May. I like the idea of keeping a car until it drops though, so if I can get some lower cost repairs, I'm going to do that.

 

[Tom K.]

Well, the dealership vs. independent mechanic issue can be debated forever. In a big circle. With no clear winner. But face it, if you need all those repairs, AND could get them done at half the cost you mentioned, it would still be far too much to put into that car.

Cue Kenny Rogers: You've got to know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em!

Best of luck!

 

[VickieH]

Your first post lists $7441 in needed repairs.

Kelley Blue Book trade-in value for 2002 Honda CRV EX, 150K miles, gray exterior, standard equipment, Good condition, in Denver ... $1683

Same specs, but Excellent condition ... $2152

Fair condition ... $1371

If the vehicle dies on you, you will likely lose the majority of its trade-in value, have a towing bill, have a Lyft/Uber bill, and incur cost for a rental car.

Those numbers say you should replace it now.

However, you mentioned the cost of registration and insurance. Registration now vs next February is basically a wash, since it's a one-time charge. If you have annual personal property tax, you are looking at one additional year of that. Same with the higher insurance premiums. If the additional cost of those is greater than $7441, get all of the repairs done and Drive On. If the vehicle makes it past the one-year mark, you could break even, bearing in mind that it will depreciate a little more during the year. [That is not what I would do. But I don't like to gamble on vehicle reliability.]

 

[François Pugh]

Trade in value (what the stealership give you for your old car) is usually a lot less than buying value (what the customer pays for a car).
I suspect the argument @VickieH makes holds for customer price too.
Cheaper to buy one already fixed than fix your's. Just be sure to have your mechanic inspect the new-to-you one before you buy it.