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K2 Super Charger vs Fischer Curv DTX, an A/B review

ScottB

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These are both last years skis, 2017-2018, but I don't think they have changed for this year. The Supercharger is 182cm (76mm) and the DTX is 178cm (72mm). Me, 6'4", 240lbs, East Coast Race coach, expert level. Demo'd at Sunday River over two days, 3/9-10. Conditions: packed powder, loose powder on Sat, 4" fresh powder on Sunday. Great weekend to be on my Brahma's, but I only had the front side carvers with me, so run what you brung.

Fischer Curv DTX: I bought this ski a week ago on a close out. Still have not got the tune quite to my liking, so I hope to like this ski more in the future with a proper base bevel. I have skied it several times now, but this past weekend was the first at a big mtn. My first impression was the ski is very light. The DTX doesn't have the heavy race plate binding of the Curv model, it does have a system binding which is mostly plastic and works fine. The length is borderline too short for me, but the ski is sturdy enough and likes speed enough to handle someone my size. I feel like I can throw these skis around with ease. They are pretty nimble on my feet. I guess that means for a front side carver, they are fairly forgiving. They are not a pivoty, smeary ski, but I can just pick them up and put them down at will (I do weight lifting commercials too, kidding) Let's just say due to their lightness and length they are easy to maneuver. I like the stiffness, or lack thereof a lot. They are significantly softer than my race skis, but not too soft. Compared to a recreational ski, they are on the stiff end, but have a nice springy flex to them. You can really feel this as you bend them into a turn. They don't feel rock solid, but a nice flex and rebound when you pressure them. They definitely give some energy back. The one negative for me, and this might be a tune issue, is the tips do not pull you into a turn like I expected. The ski actually turns along its entire length, rather than the tip pulling hard into the turn. I personally like an active tip, as long as its not too active. My 14m radius slalom skis have too active a tip at high speeds. The DTX's have a 17m radius, so maybe that is what makes the difference (or the inconsistent base bevel, 0.5-1.0 along the length).

The skis like speed, and stay very stable at the highest speeds I cared to ski them at. They have a very springy feel to them, and they are precise, although not quite race ski precise. Fischer calls this model one step down from their Curv top model, and I think that describes the ski well. I wanted something I could take off piste occasionally and this ski fits that very well. It is just toned down enough to not be "un-fun" if I go in the glades or want to bash some moguls. It handled the 4" of fresh snow on Sunday very well. It will deflect just a bit in irregular terrain and bumps, but is still easy to control. It fits the bill for me as being capable off piste, but that is not what the ski is made for. It is still an edgy ski and has very good grip on hard snow. I went into the woods and there was about 2 feet of semi dense powder and fairly tight trees. After walking in, I decided these skis were too skinny (72mm) to ski well in that deep of snow, so I walked back out. I think it was the right decision. I have race skis for bullet proof days and I am looking for a hard snow front side daily driver. If I can fix the tune and get the tip to pull into the turn I will use these for that. If the tip is what is, then these are a bit too much on the GS side of things for what I am looking for. The rest is pretty good except I would like a 182-184cm length.

K2 Super Charger: My ski buddy owns these and we traded skis for the day on Sunday, with 4" of fresh snow falling. I could immediately feel the increase in width and length compared to the Fischers. The K2's have a much wider, blunter tip. This tip did pull you into a turn, which I liked and my buddy did not. He said he has crossed his tips several times. (he liked the Fishcers a lot). Next impression is these skis are solid and stiff. When I had them on edge, with their edges engaged, I could stand on them as hard as I wanted and no give at all. Basically very race ski like turn/flex feel. I really like that, but that is me. They felt plenty long and sturdy. This is a ski that pushes the snow out of the way, not the other way around. Your boots better be buckled up snug when on these. As a groomer ski, they felt great to me. Not quite slalom ski quick turning (18m radius I think) but could do a large short radius turn if angled way over. The ski has been described as a muscle car, rather than a Ferrari and its a perfect analogy. They didn't absorb terrain as well as the DTX, but they weren't as bad as a race ski, either. They hand flexed slight stiffer than the DTX's, but on snow the middle of the ski felt a lot stiffer. They carved well, were perfectly stable, and really encouraged cranking fast GS turns down the mtn. It was fun to keep pushing them harder and harder and they just took it all.

So, going off piste I was expecting to be a chore, but I was completely surprised at how reasonable they were. Again, pretty soft snow, and by the end of the day 4" fresh. The skis would push the snow around with no problem. I skied somewhat slow, with deliberate carved/edged turns and felt comfortable. They didn't feel nearly as maneuverable as the DTX's, but they went where I pointed them. If I ramped up the speed, I think the stiffness would have bothered me, but at a slowish pace, no problem. Moguls were Ok on them as well, although they were a bit stiff for the big bumps where you are sliding into a trough because there is no other way. The extra width helped a bit in the fresh snow as well. This is not a ski I would want to be on off piste, but its not a ski I would avoid taking off piste if that's what I wanted to do. If you are looking for something close to a race ski for groomers, this is a very good choice. If I owned this ski, I wouldn't bother owning a race ski unless I was going to race in gates.

I have read the Blister reviews on both of these skis (its the Curv, no DTX, reviewed by Blister) and pretty much agree with what they said. I do think the K2 can handle limited off piste (certainly on the East Coast) with no problem. I do agree that the Curv is more versatile and is better in off piste conditions (again not's its forte). Both are very good on piste, can handle very fast speeds. The K2 has a less flexy feel, more solid, and a little knumb. The Fischer is more flexy, more edgy, lighter, more versatile, and feedbacks better. If you want to stomp on the gas and go, the K2 wins. If you want to feel your edges and the flex of the ski, the Fischer is the one. Both can handle similar skiing.
 
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Africa

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I've have a similar issue with the tips not pulling into a turn with the DTX, if you resolve this with tuning, please let me know what you do. Otherwise my experience has been on par with yours (except I'm 180lbs and 6ft, so the length is spot on for me). I do find in soft snow the tips dive for the bottom until they hit something firm.
 

Philpug

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The Fischer's more gradual tip design has the most to do with the tip initiation as anything, it is very gradual and smooth, the K2's tip is a bit more traditional and will bite in faster.
 
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ScottB

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My thinking for the DTX is to do a base grind and put a very low base bevel angle on the ski. Something like 0.25 or 0.5 deg. I can then increase the base bevel by hand in the middle of the ski (and maybe the tail) and leave the tip with the 0.25 bevel. I am pretty sure this will quicken up the tip engagement. It is a reverse tactic to that used on slalom skis with a variable bevel.
 

Philpug

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My thinking for the DTX is to do a base grind and put a very low base bevel angle on the ski. Something like 0.25 or 0.5 deg. I can then increase the base bevel by hand in the middle of the ski (and maybe the tail) and leave the tip with the 0.25 bevel. I am pretty sure this will quicken up the tip engagement. It is a reverse tactic to that used on slalom skis with a variable bevel.
I will say the DTX has one of the best base finishes in it's class, I would be surprised if it's that.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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I measured the base bevel along the length of both skis and it varied inconsistently from 0.5 deg to 1.0 deg. In my experience, that will cause inconsistent edge grip and that is exactly what I am getting with this new ski. After having SKIMD put a perfect 0.5 base bevel on some of my other skis, that type of behavior is cured. I am talking about skiing on hard snow, as we all know, edges don't do much in soft snow.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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The Fischer's more gradual tip design has the most to do with the tip initiation as anything, it is very gradual and smooth, the K2's tip is a bit more traditional and will bite in faster.

Completely agree about this. After getting the tune to my liking on the DTX, if the carving feel isn't as quick in the tip as I like, I might try the reverse variable bevel trick to quicken it up a little. I don't expect it to make a drastic difference, as the design of the ski is for a gradual and smooth carve like you say Phil. I have never tried this personally, so it will be a an experiment. I have done the opposite, increased the tip base bevel by 0.5 deg to get rid of a hooky tip, and that worked well.

I was on the ski again last night in soft slushy conditions. Over the weekend I took a soft gummie stone to the entire edge lightly, and that helped the feel of the carve a lot. I also moved the bindings to the sweet spot as well. The skis felt good carving turns. Its amazing how skis can feel so different on different days.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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I've have a similar issue with the tips not pulling into a turn with the DTX, if you resolve this with tuning, please let me know what you do. Otherwise my experience has been on par with yours (except I'm 180lbs and 6ft, so the length is spot on for me). I do find in soft snow the tips dive for the bottom until they hit something firm.

Africa,
I looked at my DTX's tonight with magnifying goggles and I could see the base grind on the edges missed the first 2 inches or so of the tip contact surface. The tip edges were really dull for the first couple of inches, then got sharp. I think this is a contributor to the tips not pulling into the turn. It is like someone detuned the tips, which makes them less active. I really want to get these ground and re-beveled before the end of the season. I suspect it will make a big difference for the better in how they ski. In soft snow the tip was more active and the carve felt better (didn't need the tip edges, just the shape of the tip digging into the snow). Check how sharp your edges are up around the tips. On mine the base bevel was a little off up around the tip contact point as well.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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I've have a similar issue with the tips not pulling into a turn with the DTX, if you resolve this with tuning, please let me know what you do. Otherwise my experience has been on par with yours (except I'm 180lbs and 6ft, so the length is spot on for me).

I beveled and sharpened my tips up past the contact point and it solved the issue. My skis carve wonderfully now. I will describe what I found some more below.
The Fischer's more gradual tip design has the most to do with the tip initiation as anything, it is very gradual and smooth, the K2's tip is a bit more traditional and will bite in faster.

Don't disagree with this, but.............
I will say the DTX has one of the best base finishes in it's class, I would be surprised if it's that.

It was the base finish. They didn't bevel and sharpen the edge until about 2-3" rear-ward from the tip's contact point. I beveled and sharpened them forward of the contact point, and the magic happened. They carve wonderfully now and don't feel too short either. Amazing difference.

You could see when the ski was ground, the tip was not pressed onto the stone and it didn't get sharpened and beveled. The rest of the edge was pretty good, and the base was very flat. The base had a nice structure in it as well. Its a good looking finish, just came up a bit short of the tip.

Now that the tip is sharp, the ski initiates a carve really well. The tip does not pull you in, like the K2, but it starts the turn once you have engaged the edge and responds nicely to tip pressure. It is pretty ideal in terms of being not too active, but not to dead either. The edges always felt good and grippy on this ski, it just didn't bend and respond like I expected. Its not quite a quick as my 14m radius slalom ski, but its pretty close. It is now what I expected it to be. I would now say this ski rips and I would like to get more time on it. I really like that it is very torsionally stiff, but laterally just a little soft compared to a race ski so it will absorb the terrain some and not beat you up. It strikes a nice balance. This ski also likes speed and wants to run. It is very stable and confidence inspiring. Its still only 72mm underfoot, so improved tip or not, I won't take into 18" of dense snow, but that goes without saying. I will enjoy this ski in moguls and glades when the snow is on the firm side.
 

Africa

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@ScottB yep you were right, my contact points at the tips are a bit dull. Did you end up going with .5 and 3? I currently have 1 and 2, but will take it in shortly for a fresh tune.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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@ScottB yep you were right, my contact points at the tips are a bit dull. Did you end up going with .5 and 3? I currently have 1 and 2, but will take it in shortly for a fresh tune.

Yes, I did a 0.5 / 3.0 with hand tools at the tip. I also did the 3.0 side bevel all the way down the length of the ski. I made them pretty sharp, which made them too grippy and I needed to dull them just a bit with a soft gummy stone. If you are having a grind done, the base bevel will be consistent and it should be fine. A .5/3 is pretty race ski like. A 1/2 will be more relaxed and more forgiving. I use mine when coaching the youth race team, so I am on hard snow and doing drills, so I like the .5/3.
 

Africa

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Yes, I did a 0.5 / 3.0 with hand tools at the tip. I also did the 3.0 side bevel all the way down the length of the ski. I made them pretty sharp, which made them too grippy and I needed to dull them just a bit with a soft gummy stone. If you are having a grind done, the base bevel will be consistent and it should be fine. A .5/3 is pretty race ski like. A 1/2 will be more relaxed and more forgiving. I use mine when coaching the youth race team, so I am on hard snow and doing drills, so I like the .5/3.
Thanks @ScottB, had another great day on these today. Had some stubbies set up for GS and Slalom, and they were great. No serious race stuff just a clinic, felt I was on the right ski for the day.
 
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ScottB

ScottB

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Africa,

After sharpening the tips I am loving the carving on the DTX's. They turn so well now. I can pressure the tips and get a nice fairly short radius turn or put some pressure on my heels and get a nice GS turn. I have skied them at a big mtn a couple of days now and really enjoying them. They don't feel short to me anymore, either. This is one fine carving ski with a good full length tune. I will have a grind and re-bevel done on my skis at the end of the season. They are doing very well now, but having a consistent base bevel will be a good thing.

Glad to hear yours are skiing well now too.
 

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