Kästle Announces Largest Model Line Increase Since 2007

[Philpug]

"What? Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!..."

At least use a proper ski quote...
"What? Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Mad River Glen shut down the gondola? Hell no!..."

 

[Philpug]

@Philpug,

Did Kastle indicate if their higher end skis will still be produced in Austria? I think I read somewhere that some of the production will be in Czech Republic. That seems to imply to me not all, and perhaps there is a chance higher end skis still made in Austria?

I can understand the trepidation of moving manufacturing. While it may not be related, K2 suffered a decline in their brand soon after production was made in China. As discussed on another thread a few years ago, I really felt this hurt the brand since being American was so much of the K2's branding and heritage.

I guess the question is is how much of Kastle's branding is Austrian? Or how much of a premium ski is associated with where it is made. The other issue is that plenty of skis are still made in France, Germany, Austria, etc. So consumers have a clear choice there unlike many products where basically all brands are made in the Far East.

Perhaps it is not an automatically a nail in the coffin if Kastle's skis are now made in Czech Republic, but concerns also seem justified. Just as I am concerned about the brand expanding down market. I'm trying to think of there are other premium skis that have mass market positioned lines and can't think of any off hand.

Read post #58, I think I was posting that while you were typing.

As far as your last line, keeping in the ski industry, I would say Volkl. I recall talking to a Volkl rep and he asked abotu some other skis and I mentioned some "premium" brands. He took offence and said Volkl is a premium brand. I replied it was, but when you started offering $399 package skis you chose to give up that title.

 

[Andy Mink]

My RAM truck was made in Mexico and is owned by an Italian group that bought an American company after a German company had it for a while. Talk about a global economy!

 

[rj2]

As the skiing great Yogi Berra once said, "Nobody buys Kaestle anymore, they're too popular."

 

[Wasatchman]

I had a pretty candid conversation with their spokesman about the concern of them going down market. I brought up when Mercedes offered the first C230 at $29,900. When that happened it immediately devalued every $100K plus S-Class. Nothing looses exlustivity to a $100K Mercedes like when the neighbor buys a $29K Benz for his daughters sweet 16 birthday. Mercedes screwed the pooch when they did that..with what they did it with. Now, Mercedes is a full line company offering a $30K car that isn't devaluing the more expensive counter parts. From what I see of Kastle's new offerings, I see no risk of this happening either.

Except I don't think Mercedes has the cachet it once did. If one agrees with that premise, you could argue it's a function of changes in the car market rather than Mercedes expanding its lineup.

The car market has moved to SUVs and electric cars are also becoming popular, 2 areas that are not historically strong points for Mercedes.

But I just don't believe Mercedes carries the same cachet as it used to, and expanding the lineup and moving more down market is part of it I believe.

 

[Pdub]

I hope they make more sizes.

 

[Alexzn]

Not to belabor the point but when you want people to pay 4 figures for a ski that realistically provides real but marginal improvements to some of the mainstream offerings that cost 40% less, you want that ski to be made by Austrians or Swiss workers in lederhosen, rather than at an eastern European factory with clear wage and cost advantages. The Kastle construction is inherently more expensive, but not that much more. And Blizzard continues to make cheaper skis in Austria proper. I'm sure the new owner wants to keep charging Kastle prices while making them for less. Am i the only one who that situation rubs the wrong way?

 

[UGASkiDawg]

Not to belabor the point but when you want people to pay 4 figures for a ski that realistically provides real but marginal improvements to some of the mainstream offerings that cost 40% less, you want that ski to be made by Austrians or Swiss workers in lederhosen, rather than at an eastern European factory with clear wage and cost advantages. The Kastle construction is inherently more expensive, but not that much more. And Blizzard continues to make cheaper skis in Austria proper. I'm sure the new owner wants to keep charging Kastle prices while making them for less. Am i the only one who that situation rubs the wrong way?

Doesn't rub me the wrong way. I do the same thing to my employer every year. I demand more money and try to do less. Most of the time I get away with it but sometimes I don't . A ski is "worth" what you're willing to pay for it. Where it's made doesn't even enter my mind. I ski it and decide based on how it skis whether I'm willing to $X more than cheaper option b. I've never nor will I ever pay attention to where something is produced except wine.

 

[Alexzn]

Doesn't rub me the wrong way. I do the same thing to my employer every year. I demand more money and try to do less. Most of the time I get away with it but sometimes I don't . A ski is "worth" what you're willing to pay for it. Where it's made doesn't even enter my mind. I ski it and decide based on how it skis whether I'm willing to $X more than cheaper option b. I've never nor will I ever pay attention to where something is produced except wine.

You are probably in the minority. Like it or not manufacture place is still synonymous with quality (Italian shoes, Turkish rugs, Swiss watches). Also the trend in consumer goods is to give people more for less money, not less for the same money. And Kastle knows that damn well, this is why the new ski says "Austrian Technology" instead of " proudly made in Czech Republic'".

 

[neonorchid]

Well,
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As for the B+W's, we all have different ears!

Apologize for the thread drift but I couldn't resist:

 

[Big J]

I am biased (as the current FXHP and MX owner), but I do not like the direction this is going. The advantage of Kastle was always that you got high-quality construction with full-race sandwich, full wood cores, metal layers, and rubber dampening layers (OK, that one was partial on the FX). The trip-core sounds like they only use expensive high-density stuff for the middle core. I am curious about the direction the FX shape is taking. Thankfully they didn't take away the taper, which is defined feature of that line, that's what makes it so reliable off-piste. I don't think HPs needed to lose any weight, if anything that was an advantage in chop (although Head Kore and DPS to some extent can make a light ski work in the chop, but neither approaches the dampness of the Kastle HP and MX offerings).

Not being made in Austria will be a marketing disaster for the higher end lines. I don't think beginners and juniors care.

I think that only time will tell. I have the MX89 and the BMX108 and really like the quality and how they ski.

 

[Muleski]

Just throwing this out there. IF, and I know it's a big IF, Kastle usable to move the production to the Czech Republic, and IF they are able to maintain the quality {or perhaps even improve on it}, would people be OK with that? Or do people think that the Austrian, Swiss, Western Euro Alps "cachet" is a huge part of this?

Here's where I am coming from. The Czech Republic has some incredible craftsmen, in many businesses. Not just good. World class. I don't know how many here have been there, visited Prague, etc. I think the Eastern Euro stereotypes may be dated and not that accurate.

They have built an awful lot of skis over the years in Eastern Europe. Good skis. The Elan factory, in Slovenia, I believe is still the biggest in the world, and builds skis for a lot of brands. Our son was a fully comp'd athlete with Elan at the time when they were trying to ramp things up in the US. Had 3-4 guys on the USST on the skis. The build quality of those skis was outstanding. Better than the Renn Fischers he had, I think better than the handbuilt Nordicas.

I have no dog in this hunt at all. None. I have friends who love Kastle. Friends who sell the skis. I have always been between sizes. I know the product quality though.

Just saying that this MIGHT be surprising. The margins could be such that for the Kastle builds, they can hire the best people, and still increase the present margins, and market and perhaps sell more skis. I don't know. People get all fired up about a lot of premium brands, and custom made skis. I have visited a number of small artisan factories in Italy for example. And I think some might be shocked to see them in action. The promo videos and tours of some of them look great. But then you learn things like the fact that one or two have no climate controlled curing rooms. Basic stuff. Yet the skis turned out are coveted, ski well, and hold together. I would think that should Kastle want to........maybe a big leap...they can build them very well. And likely source the best materials.

This factory builds 100K plus pairs a year. Have to have some skill there, I assume. Of course I could be 100% wrong. I am not familiar with exactly has been made there in the past. It sounds like a pretty sophisticated factory.

I think it's going to be interesting to watch. And hope for the best. I have one pretty credible source who is saying that the new skis are very good. Best ever. He has a dog in the hunt, though.

Good luck to all on this one.

 

[neonorchid]

I may have missed this but is the FX96 only available as an HP metal version with the women's FX96W model being a non-HP no metal version? PugSki video #1 appears as though FX96W has a raised central topsheet panel often associated with a layer of metal, but no HP in the name. Orginal FX94 had two layers of titanal, so I'm curious whats up with this latest generation FX.

 

[TheArchitect]

Just throwing this out there. IF, and I know it's a big IF, Kastle usable to move the production to the Czech Republic, and IF they are able to maintain the quality {or perhaps even improve on it}, would people be OK with that? Or do people think that the Austrian, Swiss, Western Euro Alps "cachet" is a huge part of this?

I'm absolutely okay with them being built in the Czech Republic if the quality remains the same as it is now.

 

[Philpug]

Everyone needs to breath a moment. Kastle is not moving ALL of their production to the Czech Republic...high end skis like the MX will still come from Austria.

 

[neonorchid]

Kästle Announces Largest Model Line Increase Since 2007​

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(FX86, FX96 HP, FX106 HP and FX116).
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So, is that the complete FX line up (in addition to FX96-W), with the FX96 HP and FX106 HP being the only two with metal, exclusively, i.e., no non-HP FX96/106? All other FX not available in an HP version and presumably without metal?

 

[Alexzn]

So the current factory will make the MX line and everything else moves to Czech Republic? Makes more sense, still disappointing for the rest of the line. Yes, Czechs are great artisans, bohemian crystal and all, but I doubt that translates into skis. Chinese porcelain is the best on the world too, does not make them automatically good at everything else.

 

[James]

I hope they make more sizes.

Yeah that's the important part. I have little hope. Adding more models is sexier.
Why don't they make a hyper carver, like 130cm?

Apologize for the thread drift but I couldn't resist:

That sounded good. Was that like a, "this is better than B&W" reference? Pre war components in the amps eh? I hope not the caps.

 

[sinbad7]

Last year I managed to demo a pair of Lusti CWR (Cross Wide Rocker) 84s in 181cm with Vist demo bindings. Czech company. I own the Kastle MX78, MX88 and FX94, and I've demoed a bunch of other Kastles. I was very impressed with the CWR.

http://www.lusti.cz/eshop-cwr-84-cross-wide-rocker-84-detail-1008

Let's wait and hear the reviews.

 

[neonorchid]

-
That sounded good. Was that like a, "this is better than B&W" reference? Pre war components in the amps eh? I hope not the caps.

1), B&W, totally different head and I'm not gonna go there. Was more a horn reference, said he was into Klipsch.
2) F' yeah and they're not cheep - ex.,
http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30113
http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=30167
http://www.hifitown.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29838
More ~ pre-WWll iron, preferably Western Electric, i.e., transformers, cores, laminations... some use vintage Western Electric wire.
And of course ~ and pre-WWll vacuum tubes.