Kästle Announces Largest Model Line Increase Since 2007

[TheArchitect]

Not a surprise at all and the Kastlephiles, one right here, should've seen the warning or the writing on the wall when the sale was announced and finalized last year. Is there any doubt that this will "screwed up"......feels like a matter of when it will occur......sacrifice quality for quantity at a time when trying to reduce overhead and maximize profits by leveraging a boutique brand name.

I am DYING to hear what the Pugski testers think once they get these on the snow. I hope we're all nervous for no reason. @Philpug , when does the on-snow testing usually happen?

 

[wallyk]

Amazes me how much wool has been pulled over eyes.
Made in Austria does not mean anything on those. Limited edition and wood vernere does.
What was the 8th letter you learned in Kindergarten?
Because others have made huge sacrifices to stay true to the customer and never compromise instead or perpetuating a falsehood I have know qualm exposing the truth. The consumer deserves it.
Btw, just stopped by the booth.
If under the eagle it says, "Austrian Technology", what does that tell you?

Not a very subtle plug for your employer........I ride both Stockli and Kastle, but this reads like a commercial, and a bad one at that. Do you anticipate more volume within say, 5 years, from consumers possibly switching to Stockli??

 

[wallyk]

I am DYING to hear what the Pugski testers think once they get these on the snow. I hope we're all nervous for no reason. @Philpug , when does the on-snow testing usually happen?

Totally concur. Would think that any alteration in the manufacturing process of the "higher end" skis in the lineup would occur in the future not for next year. Have to replace my MX83 now!!!!!

 

[Philpug]

Before people start selling their Kastles or jumping off bridges. Does it really matter if some of the skis are built in the Cech Republic? Does it matter of Mercedes are made in Alabama? If Hondas are made in Ohio? If Apple computers are made in China? If someone works from home and telecommutes? Look at what something does verses where it came from? We are in a global market. It is time people realize it and know that this is the new norm.

 

[Bob Simpson]

The 'old Kastles' are Nordica.

Sir, I was a Kastle dealer. Benetton/Nordica bought Kastle stock in 1991, and increased it significantly by 1996 to control the company. For around 6 years the name on the ski did not change, and they were still designed and manufactured in Austria. I got out of the ski business the first year the ski had Nordica on the top sheets. I only skied the RX and World Team versions and absolutely loved the skis! I never sold, or was even aware of the tube skis claimed earlier. I my recollection, the tubes were all Atomics.
Take care,
Bob

 

[Alexzn]

Unlike @Muleski I am rather concerned. From the very little that I know about ski production, factory makes a huge difference. Blizzard and Nordica are made at a new state of the art factory, and that shows. Kastle I believe used to be made at the Head factory in Austria before moving to their own production facility not too long ago and shared some of the damp nature with Head skis, no doubt becuase of some of the glues they used. Now they would most likely share the glue with Faction, which is a nice ski line, but not quite a Kastle, and given the production numbers, probably that factory also produces a bunch of rental fleet skis. A new factory probably means a new core material supplier, which is also a concern. The current Kastle's way of operating used to be: lets build the best possible ski from the best materials and charge accordingly. Clearly now the profit margins start to play a significantly more important part in the business strategy, and that changes the equation significantly. So I'm afraid Kastle as the premium ski brand just imploded before our eyes.

 

[Alexzn]

Sir, I was a Kastle dealer. Benetton/Nordica bought Kastle stock in 1991, and increased it significantly by 1996 to control the company. For around 6 years the name on the ski did not change, and they were still designed and manufactured in Austria. I got out of the ski business the first year the ski had Nordica on the top sheets. I only skied the RX and World Team versions and absolutely loved the skis! I never sold, or was even aware of the tube skis claimed earlier. I my recollection, the tubes were all Atomics.
Take care,
Bob

I think the ski line I was referring to was the "Fibre Tube", which brought them an insane amount of warranty claims. And I believe they skied like crap as well....

 

[ARL67]

DPS kinda came from nowhere and went from Zero to Hero with skis made in China. After some success they starting producing some in the USA. Checking the DPS website just now, states that the: Pure3 skis are made in USA and the Hybrids in China. For me, the country of assembly / manufacture is not a deciding factor. YMMV

 

[Johnny V.]

For me, the country of assembly / manufacture is not a deciding factor. YMMV

I agree to an extent, but will you pay a premium price for those products?

 

[Ron]

all value (what you feel something is worth) is relative. just because something is made in a Chinese factory doesn't mean its not high quality.

 

[Philpug]

I agree to an extent, but will you pay a premium price for those products?

I don't think that will be a concern, Some of Kastle's pricing is getting market adjusted like the new DX (formerly LX) collection.

 

[Philpug]

I am DYING to hear what the Pugski testers think once they get these on the snow. I hope we're all nervous for no reason. @Philpug , when does the on-snow testing usually happen?

We will be testing these next week.

 

[TheArchitect]

I agree to an extent, but will you pay a premium price for those products?

all value (what you feel something is worth) is relative. just because something is made in a Chinese factory doesn't mean its not high quality.

This is why I said up-thread that I'm reserving judgement on the factory move. If the new factory still produces the same quality that Kastle is known for then I'll gladly continue to pay the premium. Ultimately, I don't care where something is made. The reason why this gets people talking is that there are plenty of examples across retail where quality does decline when these types of moves happen. Phil makes a good point that a Mercedes built in the US doesn't concern most people; it's still a Mercedes and performs as expected. We don't know yet how this will turn out and may not know for a couple of years. Again, "reserving judgement"!

For my part I usually buy my Kastles at the end of the season or over the summer to save some money. I may just pick up a pair of last year's MX89's regardless and wait to see how the new FX96 fares.

 

[TheArchitect]

We will be testing these next week.

Thanks. Looking forward to hearing what you guys think.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

all value (what you feel something is worth) is relative. just because something is made in a Chinese factory doesn't mean its not high quality.

It can matter though. It is disappointing to see Swedish flags all over the Hestra packaging and a Made in China label in the glove.

 

[neonorchid]

One of my old hobbies was audio and I had some higher-end Klipsch Forte IIs, Academy, and various KG speakers bought before they started selling Klipsch at Best Buy. They were only sold at AV shops and not mass-market and the brand had cachet. Selling at Best Buy damaged their rep and I never really liked the sound of their mass-market offerings.

AV is less of a hobby now and I sold the Klipsch speakers. Ironically, I replaced them with Bowers and Wilkins, which has done the same damn thing; selling at Best Buy!

I disagree, although I wouldn't look at their mass-market offerings either, looking at your audio gear as comodity is a foolish move. However it is one which enables guys like me to pick up good used gear after you guys take the huge depreciation hit.
IMO, you should've listened to them driven by and subsequently invested in a single digit wpc no negative feedback single ended triode amp (300B output tube or 2A3) and kept those Forte 2's or traded up for La Scala or Klipshorn. My neighbor is still kicking himself for getting rid of a hand me down pair of Klipshorns and an orginal Marantz 8B tube amp / Model 7 preamp driving them, (not the VAC reissue).
Btw, the only B&W's I ever cared for were the little silver signature 25 2 way monitors, and even then they were far doun my list. I'd sooner purchase a pair of Voxitive AF-2.6 drivers or if I won the lottery the Voxitive AC-F field coil drivers and build a back loaded horn for either of the them over any B&W monkey casket. Fortunately, there are some fine drivers available without getting all exotic like the Voxitive ... high-end audio law of dimishing returns

...Kastle, eh they are pretty much ... I'm with you on reserving judgment until the new FX line is reviewed and demoed, and even then I'm not proficient enough to say.

 

[neonorchid]

Before people start selling their Kastles or jumping off bridges. -

"What? Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!..."

 

[Philpug]

I had a pretty candid conversation with their spokesman about the concern of them going down market. I brought up when Mercedes offered the first C230 at $29,900. When that happened it immediately devalued every $100K plus S-Class. Nothing looses exlustivity to a $100K Mercedes like when the neighbor buys a $29K Benz for his daughters sweet 16 birthday. Mercedes screwed the pooch when they did that..with what they did it with. Now, Mercedes is a full line company offering a $30K car that isn't devaluing the more expensive counter parts. From what I see of Kastle's new offerings, I see no risk of this happening either.

 

[TheArchitect]

I disagree, although I wouldn't look at their mass-market offerings either, looking at your audio gear as comodity is a foolish move. However it is one which enables guys like me to pick up good used gear after you guys take the huge depreciation hit.
IMO, you should've listened to them driven by and subsequently invested in a single digit wpc no negative feedback single ended triode amp (300B output tube or 2A3) and kept those Forte 2's or traded up for La Scala or Klipshorn. My neighbor is still kicking himself for getting rid of a hand me down pair of Klipshorns and an orginal Marantz 8B tube amp / Model 7 preamp driving them, (not the VAC reissue).
Btw, the only B&W's I ever cared for were the little silver signature 25 2 way monitors, and even then they were far doun my list. I'd sooner purchase a pair of Voxitive AF-2.6 drivers or if I won the lottery the Voxitive AC-F field coil drivers and build a back loaded horn for either of the them over any B&W monkey casket. Fortunately, there are some fine drivers available without getting all exotic like the Voxitive ... high-end audio law of dimishing returns

...Kastle, eh they are pretty much ... I'm with you on reserving judgment until the new FX line is reviewed and demoed, and even then I'm not proficient enough to say.

Well, I didn't go into detail on why it was less of a hobby. I got divorced in 2014 and bought a townhouse that didn't have room for speakers that size. I didn't want to get rid of the Forte II's. As for the B+W's, we all have different ears!

 

[Wasatchman]

@Philpug,

Did Kastle indicate if their higher end skis will still be produced in Austria? I think I read somewhere that some of the production will be in Czech Republic. That seems to imply to me not all, and perhaps there is a chance higher end skis still made in Austria?

I can understand the trepidation of moving manufacturing. While it may not be related, K2 suffered a decline in their brand soon after production was made in China. As discussed on another thread a few years ago, I really felt this hurt the brand since being American was so much of the K2's branding and heritage.

I guess the question is is how much of Kastle's branding is Austrian? Or how much of a premium ski is associated with where it is made. The other issue is that plenty of skis are still made in France, Germany, Austria, etc. So consumers have a clear choice there unlike many products where basically all brands are made in the Far East.

Perhaps it is not an automatically a nail in the coffin if Kastle's skis are now made in Czech Republic, but concerns also seem justified. Just as I am concerned about the brand expanding down market. I'm trying to think of there are other premium skis that have mass market positioned lines and can't think of any off hand.