Kästle Announces Largest Model Line Increase Since 2007

[Choucas]

It was shocking for me to learn that Kastle only sold 18,000 pairs of skis in the US against a goal of 30,000. I'm guessing that some of the 18,000 were demos/high-end rentals, i.e. lower margin sales. That's a pathetic sales effort in what is said to be their biggest market. No wonder they sold out to the CZ guys. The new owners will do what they need to do to make the brand profitable. The new product will have to be beyond amazing to turn this around.
PS -- I don't care where the skis are made, but I do think that the country of manufacture should be clearly marked on the product. It's not right to pitch yourself as a venerable Austrian brand and then fail to let folks know where the skis are built.
Thanks for your insights Swiss Toni.

 

[Rybo]

It was shocking for me to learn that Kastle only sold 18,000 pairs of skis in the US against a goal of 30,000. I'm guessing that some of the 18,000 were demos/high-end rentals, i.e. lower margin sales. That's a pathetic sales effort in what is said to be their biggest market. No wonder they sold out to the CZ guys. The new owners will do what they need to do to make the brand profitable. The new product will have to be beyond amazing to turn this around.
PS -- I don't care where the skis are made, but I do think that the country of manufacture should be clearly marked on the product. It's not right to pitch yourself as a venerable Austrian brand and then fail to let folks know where the skis are built.

I have followed this page for quite some time but have never commented. However, this thread is one that speaks to me more than most. Personally, I think Kastle has made some of the best skis that I have ever skied over the course of the last few years. I know Phil didn't like the 95hp but did enjoy the 105hp (which is still strange to me but to each their own!). I own both and love them so I don't expect to enjoy the new lineup as much. I envision it being a cross between the fx94 and last years 95hp but that is pure speculation. If so, that would lead to less stability at higher speeds, weaker dampening, less favorable in crud, perhaps more playful in the bumps, jibbing, etc...and all of the things that you all know very well. Not to say that's a bad ski....good for some, not for others. That being said, I have bigger concerns that surround "where" these skis are made. I agree with what you had to say above. It might not matter, but it does matter by the way of perception which is exactly why they didn't stamp these with a "Made in the Czech Republic" badge. What I worry about is this press release and what this means regardless of product and looking at this as a business decision.

https://www.kaestle.com/fileadmin/u...gi_Kaestle_on_track_for_further_growth_EN.pdf

These projections indicate one thing, their priority is growth and growth alone. It showed in last years lineup as well and I expect it to be worse this fall. With growth comes a lack of quality control. It is a common occurrence in almost all facets of industry. A local ski shop here in Colorado stated that they had more warranty issues with Kastle this year than they ever have had before. He stated that the touring line issues stood out the most but my friend's brand new fx95hp delaminated after 5 days on the snow. Nothing happened, no hard hits, no rocks, nothing. The ski literally came apart. All of these things are painting a bad picture for me and the new lineup expansion (women's skis?) deviates from everything Kastle has stood for over the past few years. Just my two cents but thought I would throw this out there to get your thoughts as well.

 

[procos]

I have followed this page for quite some time but have never commented. However, this thread is one that speaks to me more than most. Personally, I think Kastle has made some of the best skis that I have ever skied over the course of the last few years. I know Phil didn't like the 95hp but did enjoy the 105hp (which is still strange to me but to each their own!). I own both and love them so I don't expect to enjoy the new lineup as much. I envision it being a cross between the fx94 and last years 95hp but that is pure speculation. If so, that would lead to less stability at higher speeds, weaker dampening, less favorable in crud, perhaps more playful in the bumps, jibbing, etc...and all of the things that you all know very well. Not to say that's a bad ski....good for some, not for others. That being said, I have bigger concerns that surround "where" these skis are made. I agree with what you had to say above. It might not matter, but it does matter by the way of perception which is exactly why they didn't stamp these with a "Made in the Czech Republic" badge. What I worry about is this press release and what this means regardless of product and looking at this as a business decision.

https://www.kaestle.com/fileadmin/u...gi_Kaestle_on_track_for_further_growth_EN.pdf

These projections indicate one thing, their priority is growth and growth alone. It showed in last years lineup as well and I expect it to be worse this fall. With growth comes a lack of quality control. It is a common occurrence in almost all facets of industry. A local ski shop here in Colorado stated that they had more warranty issues with Kastle this year than they ever have had before. He stated that the touring line issues stood out the most but my friend's brand new fx95hp delaminated after 5 days on the snow. Nothing happened, no hard hits, no rocks, nothing. The ski literally came apart. All of these things are painting a bad picture for me and the new lineup expansion (women's skis?) deviates from everything Kastle has stood for over the past few years. Just my two cents but thought I would throw this out there to get your thoughts as well.

Well there is always Stockli. I bought a pair of SR 105's this year and they describe everything that you seem to like. Love mine. Btw I also own 4 pairs of Kastles and love them as well.

 

[Scotty I.]

Growth, in and of itself, is not a negative in my book and does not necessarily indicate that we should expect a lesser product. Only time will tell and if quality does drop off, the market will deal with that.
HOWEVER, I do think that Kastle has a bigger problem. It's called Stockli and it's all about perception. I think that most people who spend the money on Kastles are, for the most part, informed skiing consumers. Stockli goes out of their way to make the point that it takes days to make every pair. The perception, which I think is true, is that Stoclklis are handmade. Kastles are not and, in fact, they have moved their production out of Austria to a less expensive production environment. Informed people, like yourself @Rybo, will view that as a negative. Now, if Kastles were $500 less than Stocklis, that would be one thing. But they're not. They're basically the same cost.
So, one has to ask themselves, do I want a handmade ski that takes days to produce or a product that has lost their Austrian production image and is now mass produced in the Czech Republic for the same money. Do I want a mass produced product that hopefully performs like a Porsche (we'll see) or a handmade product that skis like an MBZ? As a consumer, I know what my answer would be.

 

[Rybo]

Well there is always Stockli. I bought a pair of SR 105's this year and they describe everything that you seem to like. Love mine. Btw I also own 4 pairs of Kastles and love them as well.

That's exactly the route I would go. I demo'd a pair of SR 95's a few years back and they seemed heavy to me. That was the only thing that steered me away...might have been about 4 years ago so I'm sure things have changed. I still love bumps (even if my knees and back don't at 45) and the hp was better in that regard. For Highland Bowl, Silverton, Jackson, etc...I love the 105hp. I know the 95hp isn't the perfect match in bumps but it does a fantastic job and the tradeoff for everything else on the mountain (especially at speed) made it perfect. The fact that you love the SR 105 along with your Kastles tells me that I would more than likely feel the same way. Might be the year to switch things up.

 

[Rybo]

Growth, in and of itself, is not a negative in my book and does not necessarily indicate that we should expect a lesser product. Only time will tell and if quality does drop off, the market will deal with that.
HOWEVER, I do think that Kastle has a bigger problem. It's called Stockli and it's all about perception. I think that most people who spend the money on Kastles are, for the most part, informed skiing consumers. Stockli goes out of their way to make the point that it takes days to make every pair. The perception, which I think is true, is that Stoclklis are handmade. Kastles are not and, in fact, they have moved their production out of Austria to a less expensive production environment. Informed people, like yourself @Rybo, will view that as a negative. Now, if Kastles were $500 less than Stocklis, that would be one thing. But they're not. They're basically the same cost.
So, one has to ask themselves, do I want a handmade ski that takes days to produce or a product that has lost their Austrian production image and is now mass produced in the Czech Republic for the same money. Do I want a mass produced product that hopefully performs like a Porsche (we'll see) or a handmade product that skis like an MBZ? As a consumer, I know what my answer would be.

Perfectly stated! This is absolutely spot on!

 

[Beach Bum]

Kastle skis are better than Stockli, have skied both often. But that's just like, my opinion.

 

[procos]

Kastle skis are better than Stockli, have skied both often. But that's just like, my opinion.

I would probably agree with that statement. They are close but I agree Kastles are smoother and lighter. I never liked the FX94 or FX95 but I love my LX82 and FX84 for Michigan skiing. I absolutely love both the BMX 105 and 115 for outwest. I just wish my BMX105 came in a 177 length like my 115. When I first got my SR105 I felt it had a hooky tail but my buddy told me to detune it just a tad. I did and it is awesome. Not as smooth as the Kastles but it plows through everything and carves like a beast for a 105. But yes I agree I prefer my Kastles a bit more.

 

[Alexzn]

My issue with Stockli has always been sizing. I fit into a Kastle chart and I'm always between the sizes for Stockli. Keep that in mind before you switch.

 

[ARL67]

Many were stuck in Kastle with their sizing gaps too. I'm a big fan of both brands, so not picking on either.

Also, I never gelled with my FX95-HP or BMX105-HP, but really liked my FX94 & BMX105 non-HP. A ski doesn't have to please everybody.

 

[Philpug]

So, one has to ask themselves, do I want a handmade ski that takes days to produce or a product that has lost their Austrian production image and is now mass produced in the Czech Republic for the same money. Do I want a mass produced product that hopefully performs like a Porsche (we'll see) or a handmade product that skis like an MBZ? As a consumer, I know what my answer would be.

Again, this is speculation, the RX & MX's will still come form Austria and priced similar to what they have been. FX's will also be comong from Austria but I am told there will be a price adjustment lower. PX, DX and junior skis will be coming from the Czech factory and will priced significanly lower.

 

[Rybo]

My issue with Stockli has always been sizing. I fit into a Kastle chart and I'm always between the sizes for Stockli. Keep that in mind before you switch.

I am in the same boat. 181 is my preference..have to go to a 184 in the SR or down.

 

[ski otter 2]

I hope not to offend anyone, but to me, the biggest problem Kastle - and also Stockli - have had, has been to translate their incredible narrow skis (up to 94, or maybe 105, to me, in the case of Kastles, and past the lasers, in the case of Stockli. From my perspective, and relative to other brands, in the fatter skis, all mountain and powder/crud, both brands seem to have made either mostly fat race-like skis, or odd skis, especially for powder. The Stocklis, overall, to me, have been somewhat split-personalitied:
There have been the excellent FIS and Laser models (fairly stiff and dialed in, for the most part), and then the Stormriders (fairly soft and with a speed limit, for the most part). The Lasers do well, and have a rep passed down by word of mouth; while the recent Stormriders have both their fans and their somewhat more muted detracters. for myself, I have to be careful not to overpower the SR 88s and 95s. I was fairly shocked by them, when I finally got on them, after so many years of wondering.

For the Kastles, to me, there have been semi-effective attempts at change: the FX94 HP and 95 HP, as well as the non-HP versions for bumps and off piste, have really worked: a very dialed in ski (but not for powder, really, to me). Ditto the BMX 105 HP and non-HP. To me, again, the 105 HP has been the most effective ski of either band to crack the barrier of being able to compete and be relatively great at powder/crud compared to other brands, the freeride fatter. 100+ skis and up.

The Stocklis have not been so effective. (I'm not going to ski a ski with a relatively modest speed limit in powder/crud - sorry.) Up to now, not able to float and crud-bust in the ways other Brands can. No comparison.

And this sort of thing has been, to me, the ongoing problem of both brands. Sorry.

 

[Scotty I.]

I have to be careful not to overpower the SR 88s and 95s.

I'm interested to know if this includes the current '18/19" SR88? While I haven't skied it, my understanding is that it was significantly stiffened up and much "chargier" this year. If you overpowered those, then Stockli does have a problem. Also (anyone, anyone) am I correct that the 19'/20' 95's are also going to get a bit more serious?

 

[givethepigeye]

I'm interested to know if this includes the current '18/19" SR88? While I haven't skied it, my understanding is that it was significantly stiffened up and much "chargier" this year. If you overpowered those, then Stockli does have a problem. Also (anyone, anyone) am I correct that the 19'/20' 95's are also going to get a bit more serious?

I skied the OG Kastle FX104’s before I switched to SR95 (tartan plaid ones). No difference really blasting through crud at speed. I’m not the slowest. Your mileage may vary. I dont think next years are getting stiffer, but that may be fake news. Also, the 88 isn’t just a narrower 95 as it stands today.

 

[Tony S]

FX's will also be comong from Austria but I am told there will be a price adjustment lower

If you pay full retail, then Kästle prices are high for many models. The non-hp FXs of recent years have been priced more modestly, even at MAP. Once you start looking at used skis or NOS purchases patiently, as I'm usually doing, the supposedly outrageous coast of buying Kästle more or less disappears in my experience. Yes, this is a consumer perspective, not a vendor perspective.

 

[procos]

I hope not to offend anyone, but to me, the biggest problem Kastle - and also Stockli - have had, has been to translate their incredible narrow skis (up to 94, or maybe 105, to me, in the case of Kastles, and past the lasers, in the case of Stockli. From my perspective, and relative to other brands, in the fatter skis, all mountain and powder/crud, both brands seem to have made either mostly fat race-like skis, or odd skis, especially for powder. The Stocklis, overall, to me, have been somewhat split-personalitied:
There have been the excellent FIS and Laser models (fairly stiff and dialed in, for the most part), and then the Stormriders (fairly soft and with a speed limit, for the most part). The Lasers do well, and have a rep passed down by word of mouth; while the recent Stormriders have both their fans and their somewhat more muted detracters. for myself, I have to be careful not to overpower the SR 88s and 95s. I was fairly shocked by them, when I finally got on them, after so many years of wondering.

For the Kastles, to me, there have been semi-effective attempts at change: the FX94 HP and 95 HP, as well as the non-HP versions for bumps and off piste, have really worked: a very dialed in ski (but not for powder, really, to me). Ditto the BMX 105 HP and non-HP. To me, again, the 105 HP has been the most effective ski of either band to crack the barrier of being able to compete and be relatively great at powder/crud compared to other brands, the freeride fatter. 100+ skis and up.

The Stocklis have not been so effective. (I'm not going to ski a ski with a relatively modest speed limit in powder/crud - sorry.) Up to now, not able to float and crud-bust in the ways other Brands can. No comparison.

And this sort of thing has been, to me, the ongoing problem of both brands. Sorry.

Not sure if you are talking about the latest version of the SR105's(tartan plaid version) or not. However I have the latest version and I can't find a speed limit. I feel you can go as fast on that ski as any Kastle I own. Just my observation. I do prefer the Kastles but I am opposite of Alex. The Stockli's have a better size for me. The Kastle's at 181 are too long and the 173 are passable but a tad short. The 177 of the SR105's sit in a perfect sweet spot for me.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I must be a painfully slow skier as I've been on a number of Stormriders in various conditions and I don't think I've ever found a speed limit. But then there have been quite a few different Stormrider models with different characteristics and I haven't been on all of them. Also length of ski matters. If criticism or complements are supposed to apply to all models of a brand or years of a model in some general way, particularly if it doesn't include more information such as conditions, length, etc., honestly, I discount it.

 

[Mac]

I'm glad I stocked up on my Kastle quiver when I did.

 

[Tony S]

I must be a painfully slow skier as I've been on a number of Stormriders in various conditions and I don't think I've ever found a speed limit.

LOL, Lorenzzo, you speak my mind!