• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
It's a tough, and sad situation. Even the most optimistic struggle with this. It's hard to discuss it without triggering a variety of opinions and emotions. Even among those who run the USST, there is a lot of conflict on this one.

Julia is the most decorated American skier in Olympic history. She has won medals at the FIS World Champs. She was a phenom going back to Whistler Cup at age 13, then Junior Worlds. Her record there was incredible. Always, always has performed well on the biggest stage, under the brightest lights. No question. And she must be applauded for that.

The people I know who have competed with her, trained with her, and coached her all say that she is the best pure athlete that they have ever seen in a female skier. She and LV are miles apart in that regard. Now, if we creep into the realm of being a bit critical, some of that group would say that the talent let her do real well, and to some degree get by with an otherwise solid WC career...and a long one. It might sound harsh, and it might be unpopular, but she has never been described as the hard worker that say, Shiffrin and Vonn are. And that crowd points to seven WC wins in over 15 years on the WC. "Just seven." Some think that's a great achievement, some think it's falling far short given the talent. And, I think most people realize the USST investment in this.

So now the USST is kind of a "tension convention." We have the now old guard, who not long ago were leading the Best in the World charge. They are all wearing down and even if performing really well, like LV yesterday, or like Ligety in his most recent GS run, they are hurting. Steve Nyman is very slowly coming back from injury. Nolan Kasper has not returned. LV Is seemingly always a risk. Ligety will hopefully have his back hold up. LV skipped a start today with a sore knee.

Until Julia raced in that combined SL leg a couple of weeks ago, she had not raced in over 1000 days. While compared to the average PugSki member, she looks like a kid, she is absolutely not for a WC woman skier. This is going to be her last year.

It's very clear that both of her hips are problematic. It's no secret. Anybody who has seen her makes mention of it. The incredible athlete is in pain trying to walk. The talk that she can competitively ski a WC SG, even if she has trouble walking 50 yards is foolish. I think it's fair to say that nobody likes to hear it, see it, or think about it. One of her last WC wins, six seasons ago, was a SG.

So....even here you can sense that some of us feel that it's over, and that she should just not put herself through this. Nothing more to prove. There are others who say it's her choice, and that if she wants to give it a final Olympic shot, we should support it. The USST should support it.

It's about as polarizing a situation as you see in the sport. My experience tells me that what we're hearing, that this racing is essentially training to help her get back to qualifying for Korea, is strange. Never have seen such a plan. Can almost guarantee that no other nation would do this. So, to my thinking, this has to do more with having her name out there.

I watched the SG again today. More of same.

She's had a career with some tremendous results. She's had moments at the very top. She has a huge personality. And today, she is physically not well.

Can she "improve" in less than two months? I have no idea, other that what I hear. Does she "deserve" the chance? Is this a good use of the USST's resources?

Those questions have some questioning the process. Strong opinions both ways.

At this point, I assume that she'll continue until she can't. I do no know how it will play out. As best as possible for her, I hope.

I'm not being mean, or harsh. Just realistic, I think.

Wish her the best, and thank her for some great days in the big events!
 

RuleMiHa

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Posts
576
Location
Philadelphia, PA
What scares me (LV more JM less) is that these attempts to race and stay competitive will result in injuries that are more than career ending. Relative to where JM seems to be currently, a career ending injury may not be a big concern but the wrong kind of back injury, wrong kind of head injury, wrong kind of neck injury carry the risk of paralysis, long term vegetative states, and death. Extreme pain while skiing does not seem like it would promote control or optimal capacity for recovery when in trouble.

Given there have already been two deaths this season we can't pretend like it's not a real risk. I've got to admit when I hear LV is starting, instead of excitement there's finger crossing and praying.

I fully admit ignorance when it comes to this sport so I'd love it if someone could tell me I'm wrong.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,297
Location
Reno
What scares me (LV more JM less) is that these attempts to race and stay competitive will result in injuries that are more than career ending. Relative to where JM seems to be currently, a career ending injury may not be a big concern but the wrong kind of back injury, wrong kind of head injury, wrong kind of neck injury carry the risk of paralysis, long term vegetative states, and death. Extreme pain while skiing does not seem like it would promote control or optimal capacity for recovery when in trouble.

Given there have already been two deaths this season we can't pretend like it's not a real risk. I've got to admit when I hear LV is starting, instead of excitement there's finger crossing and praying.

I fully admit ignorance when it comes to this sport so I'd love it if someone could tell me I'm wrong.
Like you, I'm a fan but not as knowledgeable about the risk/reward at that level.
I do know LV has pushed hard to come back and is appearing to make advances. JM is in pain and adjusting for it. Meanwhile her social media and interviews show that she has many other interests that fill the void where WC skiing has been. If she retires now, she'll move somewhere sunny and surf with her new hips and less pain.
 

Blue Streak

I like snow.
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,266
Location
Edwards, Colorado
It's a tough, and sad situation. Even the most optimistic struggle with this. It's hard to discuss it without triggering a variety of opinions and emotions. Even among those who run the USST, there is a lot of conflict on this one.

Julia is the most decorated American skier in Olympic history. She has won medals at the FIS World Champs. She was a phenom going back to Whistler Cup at age 13, then Junior Worlds. Her record there was incredible. Always, always has performed well on the biggest stage, under the brightest lights. No question. And she must be applauded for that.

The people I know who have competed with her, trained with her, and coached her all say that she is the best pure athlete that they have ever seen in a female skier. She and LV are miles apart in that regard. Now, if we creep into the realm of being a bit critical, some of that group would say that the talent let her do real well, and to some degree get by with an otherwise solid WC career...and a long one. It might sound harsh, and it might be unpopular, but she has never been described as the hard worker that say, Shiffrin and Vonn are. And that crowd points to seven WC wins in over 15 years on the WC. "Just seven." Some think that's a great achievement, some think it's falling far short given the talent. And, I think most people realize the USST investment in this.

So now the USST is kind of a "tension convention." We have the now old guard, who not long ago were leading the Best in the World charge. They are all wearing down and even if performing really well, like LV yesterday, or like Ligety in his most recent GS run, they are hurting. Steve Nyman is very slowly coming back from injury. Nolan Kasper has not returned. LV Is seemingly always a risk. Ligety will hopefully have his back hold up. LV skipped a start today with a sore knee.

Until Julia raced in that combined SL leg a couple of weeks ago, she had not raced in over 1000 days. While compared to the average PugSki member, she looks like a kid, she is absolutely not for a WC woman skier. This is going to be her last year.

It's very clear that both of her hips are problematic. It's no secret. Anybody who has seen her makes mention of it. The incredible athlete is in pain trying to walk. The talk that she can competitively ski a WC SG, even if she has trouble walking 50 yards is foolish. I think it's fair to say that nobody likes to hear it, see it, or think about it. One of her last WC wins, six seasons ago, was a SG.

So....even here you can sense that some of us feel that it's over, and that she should just not put herself through this. Nothing more to prove. There are others who say it's her choice, and that if she wants to give it a final Olympic shot, we should support it. The USST should support it.

It's about as polarizing a situation as you see in the sport. My experience tells me that what we're hearing, that this racing is essentially training to help her get back to qualifying for Korea, is strange. Never have seen such a plan. Can almost guarantee that no other nation would do this. So, to my thinking, this has to do more with having her name out there.

I watched the SG again today. More of same.

She's had a career with some tremendous results. She's had moments at the very top. She has a huge personality. And today, she is physically not well.

Can she "improve" in less than two months? I have no idea, other that what I hear. Does she "deserve" the chance? Is this a good use of the USST's resources?

Those questions have some questioning the process. Strong opinions both ways.

At this point, I assume that she'll continue until she can't. I do no know how it will play out. As best as possible for her, I hope.

I'm not being mean, or harsh. Just realistic, I think.

Wish her the best, and thank her for some great days in the big events!
Thanks as usual for great insight and analysis.
It makes me wonder about the leadership of the USS tea it makes me wonder about the leadership of the USST.
 

Bolder

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 1, 2017
Posts
486
Hips are tough. I had two rounds of repair on my left hip (labrum tears, degeneration) in the past 6 years -- debridement, femoral head reshaping etc. The first round did not go well at all. My ortho said a replacement was the best solution but that I should try to tough it out for 10 more years. The second try, which I had done in France, worked...better...I'd say I'm at 70 percent, and I can ski well enough, and walk without pain most days.

The problem is leverage, as mentioned above. I'm sure that once JM retires, she'll get new hips, and probably ski very, very well. I don't know her exact problem, but A-Rod has issues similar to mine and his last few years were not good ones.

I looked at it as the price to pay for 20 years of mountain biking, surfing, skiing etc!
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Don't know if any of you caught Steve Porino and Scott Lyons' podcast "Tips and Tales" {Episode 2}, which was posted on the Premium section of skiracing.com yesterday. Their guest was Julia. Pretty good stuff. I found to be well done. They also discussed a lot of other current chatter and rumors.

Porino has known Julia since she was a kid, and they are obviously comfortable in conversation. He was clear that he wanted to know what was actually going on. To paraphrase, she said that she was not great at throwing in the towel, when chasing a goal of a dream. Her goal has been to qualify for and represent the USA in Korea. She basically has three races left before Korea. She was clear that it's a long shot, and that the dream may not happen. She sounded pretty resigned to the fact that it will not happen, and she said that even if she were to make the team, these would be her last races. Career done.

She was pretty clear that she's been in a lot of pain for over a decade. And that she has had a hard time skiing at the level that she would like to. Basically her body can't do it.

After the interview, Porino shared some personal vignettes. About how he had been tough on her over the years. And that MANY ski fans and coaches had been {I'm one}. But he also said that she has really hidden her physical problems forever. Has always tried to smile, and be upbeat through them.

I dunno, I came away after listening to it, much more impressed with the 2018 version of Julia than I ever would have imagined. She really handled herself well. She should be very proud of her career, particularly given her long lasting hip issues.

If you have premium, listen to it.
 
Last edited:

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,297
Location
Reno
I have premium and will make a point of listening to it on our road trip back to Tahoe on Saturday.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Actually, today was a SG. It's the only event that Julia may ski. So they did not pull her name off the board last night. I guess that either what did happen, or what they would like us to believe happened, is that she went up to warm up before inspection, then they looked at the course, her skiing and the decision was made that she could not handle it. So, she was a DNS.

Two more SG's before Korea. Cortina {which has historically been a very Julia-friendly hill} and Lenzerheide. I have no idea when the final decision will be made on the Olympic team. She made it quite clear that the one goal that she has left in the sport is to qualify for the team, and represent the USA again. Seems like a very long shot at this point. Regardless of her tolerance of the pain, the word is that she just can't possibly ski a WC SG. But as one seasoned coach put it "this charade continues......as Big Event Jules has been a big thing for the press and for NBC." They had not figured on her being this hobbled.

I had a coach tell me that her family was advised to repair this, surgically when she was 13-14. BTW. I think it became really painful at about age 20. She's fought through this for a LONG time.

EDIT: I also meant to add, again, that she has had a very, long, and impressive career, in spite of the ongoing hip issues. Best of luck to her, and thanks for the memories!
 
Last edited:

Average Joe

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Posts
554
Enough sugar coating. Last I watched, Julia is not healthy enough to ski on a World Cup course.
Through a provision in the FIS WCSL rules she is able to continue this charade and enhance her sponsorship payouts, but at the expense of others.
Nostalgia should not prevail over capability.
Unless I'm mistaken and she's undergone a miraculous recovery over the past month?
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
Dumb question, maybe - why can't she do the surgery now and then compete later? Or if she's borderline too old now, why was that not an option earlier? Would the new hip fix the pain, but not be sturdy enough for racing?

I am still hoping she'll do a free skiing camp after her hip is fixed. Seeing her in Between, skiing for fun ... that looked amazing.

Extreme pain while skiing does not seem like it would promote control or optimal capacity for recovery when in trouble.

My ACL experience has made me wonder about this a lot. So many athletes say that at 6 mo or 9 mo out from that surgery, their knee feels "great" ... I wonder how true that is. I wonder how much pain these athletes experience. I can't make my body do certain things when it's in pain. I wonder if they have this iron will that allows them to override their body's protective instincts around pain.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
BTW, regardless of her having frozen her points and kept her position on the WCSL, the only body or "people" who make the call to enter and athlete in a WC event are the national federations. The USST makes the decision as to who is on the start list. Period. Even MS can't choose on her own to enter a WC race.

So when I refer to that term charade, which has been well used in this situation, the USST plays a large role in this. NBC plays a role in this. No Question. Julia has been a media darling every four years at Olympic time.

I posted at the time this site started that she was just done. Cooked. Quite unpopular with a lot of people. Sort of like saying that Bode was done, finished and would never race again.

I'm a bit more understanding of Julia, now realizing how bad her hips have been, and for how long. Like 15+ years. What I do not understand is why her family chose to NOT have this addressed, medically whence was a young teen. Evidently having her on the WC as a mid teen was of paramount importance.

Sure, like any end of career, non-competitive, recovering or injured athlete, they consume a lot of resources that could easily be deployed elsewhere. Nothing new there. In this case, my understanding is that Julia is one of the tiny handful that has name recognition and large upside in terms of sponsors and donors.

Complete disconnect between her Olympic results and WC results, I have learned somewhat explained by her ability to peak, reasonably healthy and plain free, for those two weeks every four years. And also her off the charts athleticism.

No recovery. She's cooked. But.....sadly....she has NOT been ruled out of being named to the team by the USST to my understanding. I know she has this dream of going out "on the team." Sometimes it doesn't work that way, and tough decisions are made.

Not many tough calls being made by the USST these days. I had a very senior coach telling me how disappointed he was in Tiger, and "the whole mess." Said that he's wondering in there needs to be a USST. The the USSA and the big clubs do the coaching, training and put together a start list for each WC. And everybody can come together and make nice and name an Olympic Team every four years. This guys said that we were all looking for big change when Tiger took over for Marolt. Now, we have the same thing, but with a soft leader. His opinion was that we're on for at least another ten years of Tiger.

And with stupid initiatives like Project 26,
nothing is going to change. His comment was that the thing that matters to the big alpine powers is the Nations Cup, along with WC overall and discipline goals. The rest.....not on tear radar.

Julia Mancuso would have been dropped, and LONG forgotten on any of the Euro teams. But the media grab with her her is big.

Not her fault. Can you blame her for not turning away the money? No. But the "charade" is very tedious. If I had a daughter on the bubble for either WC starts, funding or support, I'd be furious.

She's done her best, she's been a physical mess for years. It's over, sadly. I am conflicted with the whole mess, and have been for about three years.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Dumb question, maybe - why can't she do the surgery now and then compete later? Or if she's borderline too old now, why was that not an option earlier? Would the new hip fix the pain, but not be sturdy enough for racing?

I am still hoping she'll do a free skiing camp after her hip is fixed. Seeing her in Between, skiing for fun ... that looked amazing.



My ACL experience has made me wonder about this a lot. So many athletes say that at 6 mo or 9 mo out from that surgery, their knee feels "great" ... I wonder how true that is. I wonder how much pain these athletes experience. I can't make my body do certain things when it's in pain. I wonder if they have this iron will that allows them to override their body's protective instincts around pain.

JM doesn't so much have an injury; she was born with hip dysplasia. This has resulted in bone spurs, and incredible strain on her hip labrums {plural}. The long term solution, I hear from a couple of docs familiar with her situation is likely two total hip replacements. I'm not a doc, but as they have explained it to me, she basically has very shallow hip sockets. Should this have been addressed when she was young, but old enough? A whole lot of lay people in the sport say yes. I think that's easy to say with 20-20 vision. Doc friends say "not so easy......"

Two-three years ago she had surgery to repair bone spurs and, and to repair torn and worn labrums. It evidently did not work, in terms of her ability to ski on the WC level, in her two events: SG and DH. Can't do it. Can se ski? Yes. Apples an oranges. Can she walk? Barely. Not without pain. I have heard that form a dozen people and seen it myself.

So at age 33, having been on the WC for seventeen years, does it make any sense at all to try to Diego some miraculous proceddure{s}to enable her to then rehab {perhaps for two full years} and return to WC speed skiing at 35? No. No chance.

On top of that, she has told a lot of people, and put out every signal that she has zero interest in continuing, even if healthy. If she were perfectly healthy, she has said that he last ski races will be or would have been the speed races at these Olympics. Done and done.

Her condition, the demands on her body as a WC skier, and to be real honest her athleticism is a formula that I don't thin any of us can identify with.

My "more gentle" opinion of this has come around from learning in recent months just hoe bad this has been, for so long. Where she was viewed as very demanding, very spoiled, very difficult and in general "a pain in the neck princess", the truth appears to be that she has been in pain for many many years, an hid it. When she might have pushed back and said "I can't do that", she instead said "I'm not doing that."

I imagine that she'll have a long lifetime of skiing and surfing ahead of her, just no speed skiing on the WC.
 

Erik Timmerman

So much better than a pro
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,302
I'm a bit more understanding of Julia, now realizing how bad her hips have been, and for how long. Like 15+ years. What I do not understand is why her family chose to NOT have this addressed, medically whence was a young teen. Evidently having her on the WC as a mid teen was of paramount importance.

Just look at how the USST works. If Julia had lost a season, maybe she would never have gotten back.
 

Average Joe

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Posts
554
Yes the sponsorship relationships drive the cash machines and make some strange bedfellows.
That part is understood to the extent that schedules, appearances, and events are coordinated and organized to maximize income. But this is a different animal altogether- a visibly injured athlete, who last I watched could not make a solid turn on one side (left footer I think), is taking a WC start slot on the eve of the olympics.
Comparisons to Bode are apples to oranges. Yes, he held an "A" team slot, and yes he planned his WC starts during his recovery to minimize and damage to his seed position. But in his last month of WC skiing (Jan /Feb 2015) he was highly competitive, was leading the World Champs SG when he was badly injured - cut on the leg. Had Bode not ditched his relationship with Head, who owned the fastest downhill skis in the world, he may have remained competitive beyond.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Just look at how the USST works. If Julia had lost a season, maybe she would never have gotten back.

In the conversations that I've been involved with, my understanding was that there was conversation about medical treatment going back one before she was even in the USST development system, so pretty young. But.....I think it's really looking at things in hindsight. Seems like the fact is her hips have become highly problematic in recent years, but have been an issue and painful for years. Dunno, it's unfortunate in many ways right now.
 

Brian Finch

Privateer Skier @ www.SkiWithaGrimRipper.com
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
3,358
Location
Vermont
Trouble is there are only so many seats in the van. USST has a loooong history of not appropriately transitioning athletes toward the ‘next phases’ in there career.

YMMV, but there is a narrow window where can play the ‘relevant ex athlete coach or ambassador’.

One of the hardest things to watch in any field is a stale 40-year-old-teenager.

Personally I’ve pivoted from “Sports Med” practioner toward active aging & helping to train/mentor a young PT. They are just so much more appropriate for the High School / College crowd clientele.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
Inactive
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,243
Location
North of Boston
Yes the sponsorship relationships drive the cash machines and make some strange bedfellows.
That part is understood to the extent that schedules, appearances, and events are coordinated and organized to maximize income. But this is a different animal altogether- a visibly injured athlete, who last I watched could not make a solid turn on one side (left footer I think), is taking a WC start slot on the eve of the olympics.
Comparisons to Bode are apples to oranges. Yes, he held an "A" team slot, and yes he planned his WC starts during his recovery to minimize and damage to his seed position. But in his last month of WC skiing (Jan /Feb 2015) he was highly competitive, was leading the World Champs SG when he was badly injured - cut on the leg. Had Bode not ditched his relationship with Head, who owned the fastest downhill skis in the world, he may have remained competitive beyond.

I agree with a lot of this, but:

JM has been a huge media draw, and would be one of the faces of these Olympics when NBC starts to kick in it overdrive. Plenty production work, interview filming and such done early this fall. Whether they use them remains to be seen, as does whether we see/hear her in the booth. It all plays into the continuation of "Best in the World", reemerging as Project 26. "We measure success by Olympic medals." She's the most decorated female Olympian that we have, for now. Do I agree with it? No. Do I have a bit of insight as to how this crowd thinks? Yes. Just saying. Plenty of people have known that this career was over two plus years ago. But, we do not have a process or a history of cutting these athletes as we see in other sports.

You are 100% correct. She can't ski at this level. She can "ski". But as s competitive WC skier? No. And now, it's both hips.

Bode. I don't know where you draw your info, etc. Bode was struggling with even competing at the 2015 World Championships. Not based on his conditioning or ability, but because he was just "done", and ready to move on. Then, he skied well, he actually had an emotional week, and he sadly had the crash and the cut. Not sure where you're headed with planning his starts. He never started after that, he had frozen his points with an injury a number of times before and after.

He never intended to race again by the time that he took his equity position with Bomber and flushed away his future relationship and income with Head. His former techs {two of them} have had a number of conversations, pretty openly about desperately trying to find a couple of pairs of race skis when Bode started the "comeback". I heard the skis described in "less than glowing terms." We'll leave it at that. Was Bode going to go from the best skis on tour to potentially the worst, and actually try to race? No. Had he admitted that to a number of his close friends? Yes. Coming back after two seasons off, in his late 30's, with minimal training at all {on snow or off} with NO boot, and on those skis? Not happening. There are plenty of posts on her detailing all of the thinking last fall.

Through that time Bode was a minimal expense drain on the USST. About $100K over two years. Most related to his family and kids' continued benefit package {health insurance, dental, etc.}. But emotionally it was an energy suck.

One of his former coaches out it this way to me. He could not say the word "retired." He said "Do you remember the TV show Happy Days? Fonzie could never admit that he was wrong, and could not utter the word. He's say "I was wrrrrrrrrr. Wrrrrrrrrr." Could get it out. Bode was likeonzie. Could not use the R word. He was insistant on the bit about "one day I'll just be gone." And that drove a lot of people a bit crazy. Like, had that point taken place. It took a long time to finally happen. A number of long time friends are not loving the recent years version of Bode.

But yeah, different people, different situation. Same USST "managing" it.

I hope that Julia announces that she's done, gets honored maybe at Nationals, and moves on to what's next.

Lot of rebuilding needed. An awful lot of people involved who are feeling pretty beat up. Not a pretty picture, as I see it.
 

K2 Rat

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jul 4, 2017
Posts
482
Even Julia now knows it is time. She announce d her retirement this morning. Ending get career in Cortina. It was a great ride and fun to watch and cheer her on.
 

Sponsor

Top