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James

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This pic is from that steep camp video Geepers posted.
Happened to see this while searching for something else...
Which chair is that? I remember the groomer way right that starts where the blue sky is, and in this photo you can't see most of, is a double blue. From the chair I watched someone fall on it then slide like 100 yards. Conditions were firm.
 

wyowindrunner

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Any thoughts on the necessity of AWD for these routes?

We'll be making the drive from the SLC airport to Jackson in late January. I've got a minivan reserved with Enterprise at a great price. I could guarantee AWD through AWDRentals.com, but it will double the price of my reservation (from $344 to $686).
Get a 4wd by all means. Have lived in this part of the world for much of my life. Own four vehicles at present and they are all 4WD or AWD. Level 2 chain law on Teton pass requires tire chains or 4WD with snow or all season tires. Happens now and then. 750 buck fine if you end up blocking traffic. Two days ago US 26 and ID 33 and 32 were closed. People bound for SLC were stuck in Teton valley for 24hours. On the way back from Targhee Sunday ID33 was drifting completely across the road in several places and this was in the daylight. Think it would have really sucked at night in a minivan.
 

mdf

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TheArchitect:
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I've read the Hobacks and lower faces are hit or miss depending on the snow.
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@mdf :"They are, but you have to ski them at least once regardless."
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Yes, it might depend how much a glutton you are. Mdf and I skied it after a break late in the day. Conversation went like this:

You know it's late...should we try to make the Hobacks?
- Hmmm I think we could make it. Be close.
It's probably going to be... interesting conditions.
- Likely very interesting.
Well then...
-So bad we have to do it. Last run?
Of course. Skip the food.
-Makes sense. Driving into town though, Christy looked up and started muttering about the Hobacks, swearing. I've never heard her curse out a place to ski. Said she hated them.
And?
-Let's go.

hobacks.jpg

Almost down! And it isn't even dark yet!
I think that was the inaugural session of the Ministry of Bad Ideas.
 

TonyPlush

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Get a 4wd by all means. Have lived in this part of the world for much of my life. Own four vehicles at present and they are all 4WD or AWD. Level 2 chain law on Teton pass requires tire chains or 4WD with snow or all season tires. Happens now and then. 750 buck fine if you end up blocking traffic. Two days ago US 26 and ID 33 and 32 were closed. People bound for SLC were stuck in Teton valley for 24hours. On the way back from Targhee Sunday ID33 was drifting completely across the road in several places and this was in the daylight. Think it would have really sucked at night in a minivan.
Yikes. Very helpful though.

Sounds like a 2WD Minivan is out of the question. Unfortunately, AWDRentals jacked up their prices even further, because apparently the week we fly in is Sundance Film Festival Week. A Subaru Outback has gone from $400 to $850 for the week. Can't say I blame them, but I'm kicking myself for not reserving earlier.

Hoping that Enterprise will have an AWD onsite that we can use instead of the minivan. I called the SLC Budget as well, apparently if you request AWD over the phone, their team will email within a few days to confirm whether they can guarantee one. Two days later and haven't heard any confirmation though.

I guess worst case scenario, we'll just ski the SLC area. Was really looking forward to JH though, so fingers crossed.
 

DrGT

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Going to JH this week!
Quick newbie question: do you wear your ski boots if you use the START bus?
 

doc

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Will defer to JH locals, but the START bus seems to disgorge a lot of folks at the base wearing boots. My guess would be if your start and end point is the Transit Center where your car is then, yes, you can change into boots at your car and wear them on the bus. But, if you're starting and ending in town, you might want to get a locker and change into boots at the base. Of course, YMMV.
 

TonyPlush

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Excellent advice guys! Thanks so much.

I'd love to experience the Hobacks while I'm there. Sounds like I'll work my way up... Kenmerer/Moran Woods --> Laramie Bowl --> Wally World/Bivouac --> Paint Brush/Thunder --> Split Rock/Pepi's Run --> Hobacks.

Are South/Middle/North Hoback about equal in terms of difficulty? How do they compare to the other blacks underneath the Sublette Base (Lower Sublette Ridge, Rawlins Bowl, South Coulter Ridge, Buffalo Bowl, and North Coulter Ridge)?

I'd say get warmed up to JH over at the Casper pod of runs, then move over to the Teton lift. The two blacks under Teton are probably as easy as blacks at JH get. If you like those, take the tram up and navigate your way down Rendezvous bowl. Your intro to Rendezvous Bowl should definitely be on a day when you can actually see. You don't want your first run down to be by feel. Then head over to Wally World and Bivouac. You can look down both of those and what you see is what you get. If you want to bypass both of those, your bail out is Rendezvous Trail. You can see Thunder from the Thunder Chair and again, what you see is what you get.

My absolute favorite skiing at JH is skier's right of Amphitheater. The natural terrain features make it what I call my "Adult-sized pinball table". I could spend all day doing that because each run is altogether different from the last.

Paint Brush is a good intro to the next tier of blacks. Pretty much every run with "Chute" in its name will have a rocky choke point to navigate. Most "Chutes" take a commitment because you can't really see what you are dealing with until you are well in and past the point of no return. Tower Three Chute is probably the easiest of the "Chutes", but is no cake walk for sure. The Alta Chutes are the real deal, and the signage as you approach them actually has them as double black. You can check them out from the Sublette Chair. Look to your left about half way up for two steep white threads. The first time I saw them I didn't think that they were enough differentiated from the rocks and trees of the mountainside to actually be named on the map. You can bypass both and go on to Pepi's Run, which is quite doable, along the lines of Bivouac or Paint Brush.

And, of course, there's Corbet's- one run I won't be skiing in this lifetime.

I've done a trip to Jackson the last 11 years and skied there 50 or so days, here is my .02 on the "modest blacks" question. One of the great things about Jackson in my opinion is that so much of the terrain is visible from the lift, making it difficult to inadvertently get in over your head. For example both the thunder chair and sublette lifts run along a ridge on the north side directly above some of the steeper marked trails on the mountain. You get a bird's eye view of whether you are up to giving them a go.

I would suggest starting off skiing Larime Bowl, if you find the pitch too much or do not like the ungroomed areas i would not ski any of the blacks that are not visible fully from either the trail or the lift to give you an idea of what you are in for. If Laramie is ok with you I would suggest skiing the traverse under the expert chutes off the thunder chair to get a taste for whether you are interested in skiing some of the other black terrain. It is not a big commitment if you get in over your head and it is fairly representative of the conditions and pitch you will encounter on some of the terrain that is not easily visible and or more of a commitment. I will be out this year over MLK with my 10 and 13 year old this year for their first JH trip and this is the barometer i will be using before moving on to other terrain. Go as far as you can (near or past the tree line you come to) and pick a line, if you can ski this comfortably you could then give the split rock area off sublette a try. The trail maps show trails such as pepis and split rock but they are more just areas and kinda confusing the first time to find and ski. I like the east facing areas that drain onto rendezvous. You can also access some of this terrain from a traverse (blink and you'll miss it..) through the woods after skiing the often groomed bivouac once the trails converge and flatten out. If you enjoy this areanyou could do the Hobacks, they are 2,000 plus of vertical and can get real variable as you descend conditions wise with no exit once you commit so make sure the snow is good down low. If the cirque is groomed you could ski that area, but most of the other terrain around this area including the upper expert chutes is steep and requires you to make tight turns. Paintbrush is likewise steep and technical in spots, though not as steep as tower three or the alta chutes. Off the teton chair the area on the map shown as moran face is fairly similar but a bit steeper than the split rock and hobacks areas. For whatever reason it seems that teton is less skied, and therefore, often less quick to track out, than sublete. You could ski Kemmerer which is often groomed to give you an idea if you are up for the pitch. Saratoga bowl is tight trees and can also suck in the lower elevations unless there is good snow, you also have to be very vigilant to not miss the traverses back to the resort. I rarely ski après and Saratoga and will not be over in saratoga this year unless the snow really turns on and i get bored with the rest of the mountain.

Almost forgot the tram. Rendezvous bowl is similar in pitch to the area below the expert chutes off the tram, maybe even a bit easier snow condition wise. I would wait for a sunny day before skiing it the first time but the top of the tram is definitely worth checking out. Enjoy!

The Hobacks are elevation and exposure (sun) challenged. I've either been there too early in the season (inadequate coverage) or too late in the season (mashed potatoes) to enjoy them. I suspect that they would be great fun right after a cold storm, but I haven't lucked into that scenario. Maybe your late January trip will find Goldilocks conditions over there.

Not much difference in overall difficulty in the Hobacks IMO and I'm one of those upper intermediate/ low advanced types. I've skied them 3 times in excellent chopped up powder conditions that have eluded @cosmoliu. Even with fat skis I think you would need 8in of fresh to not regularly bottom out on the bumps which will be prevalent top to bottom. I suck at bumps but enjoyed it just for the experience. I wouldn't go back out there unless it was powder bumps/powder or soft spring conditions.

In soft snow the Aprevous liftline/Teewinot Face is lots O fun as is Casper Bowl via the traverse off the Gondola but the traverse isn't real fun. The traverse only accesses the lower half of Casper Bowl. Cosmo and Bmore are spot on with what they've said in the areas I can ski such as the whole Pepi's area. Buffalo Bowl is nice in soft snow and you can see exactly what you're in for. Also the trees skiers right of the middle section of the run named Ranger off the gondola are nice.

Have fun!
Thanks again for all the advice @jgiddyup, @bmoreiskier, @cosmoliu. Just got back from three days at JHMR. Had an absolute blast, and best of all... skied the Hobacks!

I took the advice learned on here and treated it as a progression.

Day 1: Spent the morning warming up on the après Vous groomers. Eventually skied a somewhat ungroomed Kenmerer no problem. Warmed up for bumps with the ungroomed portions of Easy Does It. Took the tram up and skied Rondezvous Bowl, which was beautiful soft snow. (Unusually great conditions there, according to a local I met on the lift.) Then hit Laramie Bowl, Bivouc, Rondezvous Bowl again, Tensleep Traverse to Snag Tree, Teewinot Face, Secret Slope, and a few others to finish the day.

Day 2: Took first Tram up. Had eyed Buffalo Bowl while skiing the South Pass Traverse the day prior and thought it could be a low commitment version of the Hobacks, but a local suggested it would ski better in the afternoon. So, hit the bowl then lapped Bivouc, Laramie Bowl, Thunder, and Snag Tree for a while. Eventually worked over to Teton Quad and hit Grizzly Glade. Finished the day with Buffalo Bowl and was feeling confident about the Hobacks.

Day 3: Lapped après Vous and Teton Quad all morning. Took the tram up after lunch, and... had a blast skiing the South/Middle Hoback!

Conditions were fantastic. Intimidating at the top, but quickly opened up to extremely soft turns in what I can only assume is the legendary corn snow I've heard so much about. One of the best runs of my life.

Pictures:

hobacks 1.jpg

hobacks 2.jpg
Rocky entrance with 5 foot tall moguls, worried the next 2,000 feet could be brutal...

hobacks 3.jpg
Hobacks opening up

hobacks 4.jpg

Amazing soft snow in the middle to bottom of the Hobacks. Not sure if this is the corn snow I've heard so much about, but one of the best runs I've ever had.

Thanks again everyone! JHMR is an amazing place!
 

ella_g

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3ft of snow in 2 days. 730 am, tram line looping back around general store and up the stairs towards Bridger gondi. We can’t find some of the things we normally jump off of...
 
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TheArchitect

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3ft of snow in 2 days. 730 am, tram line looping back around general store and up the stairs towards Bridger gondi. We can’t find some of the things we normally jump off of...

That makes me soooo happy! I'll be there in 2 weeks. I hope it keeps snowing between now and then but 3' of snow now certainly helps.
 

doc

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Depends on the day. Lots of time the line is considerably worked off by 9.
 

Tom K.

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Nice pic of the "Triangle of Death" main Hoback entrance, @TonyPlush!

Here's a (kind of at least) local's Hoback tip: Ski past the main entrance. Stay on R-Trail to nearly the bottom, and take the signed traverse to the right. It will lead you through a bit of a whooped-out traverse to the North Hoback, BELOW the hell of the main entrance. You miss essentially nothing IMO, except the five-foot moguls and rocks you noted.

If you look up the hill as you ski under a good-sized tree island, you might even spot the picnic area!
 
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TheArchitect

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Any good weather blogs for the JH area? Open Snow and http://www.jhweather.com/#/home are about the best I've found. Here in the east we have the Single Chair Weather Blog out of Mad River Glen that I've been following this season and I'm wondering if there's a JH equivalent.
 

ella_g

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@TheArchitect I find noaa accurate for everywhere we go. Bridger teton avalanche ctr website is good too. Hope ur stoked for your trip!! Watch kings & queens of corbets on insta tomorrow ... if you indulge in that kind of thing ... by that I mean social media, not hucking off cliffs ...
 
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TheArchitect

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@TheArchitect I find noaa accurate for everywhere we go. Bridger teton avalanche ctr website is good too. Hope ur stoked for your trip!! Watch kings & queens of corbets on insta tomorrow ... if you indulge in that kind of thing ... by that I mean social media, not hucking off cliffs ...

I watched a replay of Kings and Queens. Those guys are nuts. The snow looked pretty good, though. One week to go!
 
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TheArchitect

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JH is reporting 18" and more snow from now until early next week. The entire mountain is open except for 1 trail...Corbet's! I'm assuming they're getting rid of the features they built for Kings and Queens and that's why it's closed. I hope it's open by next week. I may not ski it but I at least want it to be an option.
 

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