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DanoT

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I once showed up at JH at 8:30am mid week after a foot of fresh had fallen. Tram and gondola lines were huge so I went to the skiers far left side of the resort (Saratoga Bowl?) as far away from the tram as possible and skied untracked pow all morning.
 

ella_g

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@DanoT @RJS Saratoga bowl is fun and can be pretty empty -- random note, on a powder day, they'll be a big line on skiers right at aprez vous of people coming from Teewinot, if you want to save yourself waiting hike up around the lift, the line forms on skiers left (the saratoga bowl side) as well. You can definitely have a great powder day without a lesson or camp, especially if you'd be happy over on aprez vous, Teton doesn't get that crowded usually either. Another tram workaround on a crowded morning is take Bridger to thunder to sublette like @SpikeDog was saying (or just cut over to sublette) and hike the headwall first thing ... Or hike white spider which lets you avoid thunder and sublette but has the same results .. all inbounds. If you get in line early for Bridger (like 8:30, not 6) and then book it up the white spider, chances are pretty high that you'l be one of a very small number of people up there. Last random note is that if it's crowded, there's a second floor at Rendez Vous for lunch. It's not a secret but it's easy to not notice the stairs, they're at the left when you walk in. Often it's pretty empty up there, and there's crazy lines downstairs.
 
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TheArchitect

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.....I've been reading a bunch of guides to the mountain...

@RJS what guides have you been reading besides the unofficial one here on Pugski? Love to read them myself.
 

TonyPlush

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Any updates on how Jackson Hole is skiing? I've been casually following the weather; seems like JH has gotten a few nice storms but still has a large portion of lifts and runs closed?

Hoping to pull the trigger around the new year on an end of January trip to JH. Just want to double check that things are looking okay so far.
 

cosmoliu

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I skied last week (Dec 9-13) and it was skiing really well for early Dec. Wed and Thurs were both 5" pow days. After scouting out the places to avoid on my rock skis, I skied the last four days on the other skis I brought with nary a scratch. Thunder (Amphitheater) was very tasty all week. Rendezvous Bowl had good coverage, as did Wally World and Bivouac. That said, we had about the most fun of the week skiing the Casper and Teton pods.
 

cosmoliu

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I skied last week (Dec 9-14) and it was skiing really well for early Dec. Wed and Thurs were both 5" pow days. After scouting out the places to avoid on my rock skis, I skied the last four days on the other skis I brought with nary a scratch. Thunder (Amphitheater) was very tasty all week. Rendezvous Bowl had good coverage, as did Wally World and Bivouac. That said, we had about the most fun of the week skiing the Casper and Teton pods.
 

ella_g

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@TonyPlush the mountain is a little more than half open, all the lifts are open, it's skiing great for pre-christmas (won't be pre christmas much longer) ... it's supposed to snow Sun & Mon. Also Targhee's been open since mid November and is 100% open ... End of January is probably a better bet than new years if you're looking for more open terrain ....
 

TonyPlush

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I skied last week (Dec 9-13) and it was skiing really well for early Dec. Wed and Thurs were both 5" pow days. After scouting out the places to avoid on my rock skis, I skied the last four days on the other skis I brought with nary a scratch. Thunder (Amphitheater) was very tasty all week. Rendezvous Bowl had good coverage, as did Wally World and Bivouac. That said, we had about the most fun of the week skiing the Casper and Teton pods.
@TonyPlush the mountain is a little more than half open, all the lifts are open, it's skiing great for pre-christmas (won't be pre christmas much longer) ... it's supposed to snow Sun & Mon. Also Targhee's been open since mid November and is 100% open ... End of January is probably a better bet than new years if you're looking for more open terrain ....
Thanks all. I just booked a hotel for late January. Looking forward to my first JH trip!!!
 

TonyPlush

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@RJS what guides have you been reading besides the unofficial one here on Pugski? Love to read them myself.
I'm also interested in this, @RJS.

Mostly I'm hoping to decipher the modest blacks vs. the "gonna chute your face off" blacks. There's no clarification on the trail maps, and as a intermediate/advanced skier who enjoys challenging blacks but is humbly aware of my double-black limitations, this sort of info would be very helpful!
 

cosmoliu

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I'd say get warmed up to JH over at the Casper pod of runs, then move over to the Teton lift. The two blacks under Teton are probably as easy as blacks at JH get. If you like those, take the tram up and navigate your way down Rendezvous bowl. Your intro to Rendezvous Bowl should definitely be on a day when you can actually see. You don't want your first run down to be by feel. Then head over to Wally World and Bivouac. You can look down both of those and what you see is what you get. If you want to bypass both of those, your bail out is Rendezvous Trail. You can see Thunder from the Thunder Chair and again, what you see is what you get.

My absolute favorite skiing at JH is skier's right of Amphitheater. The natural terrain features make it what I call my "Adult-sized pinball table". I could spend all day doing that because each run is altogether different from the last.

Paint Brush is a good intro to the next tier of blacks. Pretty much every run with "Chute" in its name will have a rocky choke point to navigate. Most "Chutes" take a commitment because you can't really see what you are dealing with until you are well in and past the point of no return. Tower Three Chute is probably the easiest of the "Chutes", but is no cake walk for sure. The Alta Chutes are the real deal, and the signage as you approach them actually has them as double black. You can check them out from the Sublette Chair. Look to your left about half way up for two steep white threads. The first time I saw them I didn't think that they were enough differentiated from the rocks and trees of the mountainside to actually be named on the map. You can bypass both and go on to Pepi's Run, which is quite doable, along the lines of Bivouac or Paint Brush.

And, of course, there's Corbet's- one run I won't be skiing in this lifetime.
 
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bmoreiskier

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I've done a trip to Jackson the last 11 years and skied there 50 or so days, here is my .02 on the "modest blacks" question. One of the great things about Jackson in my opinion is that so much of the terrain is visible from the lift, making it difficult to inadvertently get in over your head. For example both the thunder chair and sublette lifts run along a ridge on the north side directly above some of the steeper marked trails on the mountain. You get a bird's eye view of whether you are up to giving them a go.

I would suggest starting off skiing Larime Bowl, if you find the pitch too much or do not like the ungroomed areas i would not ski any of the blacks that are not visible fully from either the trail or the lift to give you an idea of what you are in for. If Laramie is ok with you I would suggest skiing the traverse under the expert chutes off the thunder chair to get a taste for whether you are interested in skiing some of the other black terrain. It is not a big commitment if you get in over your head and it is fairly representative of the conditions and pitch you will encounter on some of the terrain that is not easily visible and or more of a commitment. I will be out this year over MLK with my 10 and 13 year old this year for their first JH trip and this is the barometer i will be using before moving on to other terrain. Go as far as you can (near or past the tree line you come to) and pick a line, if you can ski this comfortably you could then give the split rock area off sublette a try. The trail maps show trails such as pepis and split rock but they are more just areas and kinda confusing the first time to find and ski. I like the east facing areas that drain onto rendezvous. You can also access some of this terrain from a traverse (blink and you'll miss it..) through the woods after skiing the often groomed bivouac once the trails converge and flatten out. If you enjoy this areanyou could do the Hobacks, they are 2,000 plus of vertical and can get real variable as you descend conditions wise with no exit once you commit so make sure the snow is good down low. If the cirque is groomed you could ski that area, but most of the other terrain around this area including the upper expert chutes is steep and requires you to make tight turns. Paintbrush is likewise steep and technical in spots, though not as steep as tower three or the alta chutes. Off the teton chair the area on the map shown as moran face is fairly similar but a bit steeper than the split rock and hobacks areas. For whatever reason it seems that teton is less skied, and therefore, often less quick to track out, than sublete. You could ski Kemmerer which is often groomed to give you an idea if you are up for the pitch. Saratoga bowl is tight trees and can also suck in the lower elevations unless there is good snow, you also have to be very vigilant to not miss the traverses back to the resort. I rarely ski après and Saratoga and will not be over in saratoga this year unless the snow really turns on and i get bored with the rest of the mountain.

Almost forgot the tram. Rendezvous bowl is similar in pitch to the area below the expert chutes off the tram, maybe even a bit easier snow condition wise. I would wait for a sunny day before skiing it the first time but the top of the tram is definitely worth checking out. Enjoy!
 

TonyPlush

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Excellent advice guys! Thanks so much.

I'd love to experience the Hobacks while I'm there. Sounds like I'll work my way up... Kenmerer/Moran Woods --> Laramie Bowl --> Wally World/Bivouac --> Paint Brush/Thunder --> Split Rock/Pepi's Run --> Hobacks.

Are South/Middle/North Hoback about equal in terms of difficulty? How do they compare to the other blacks underneath the Sublette Base (Lower Sublette Ridge, Rawlins Bowl, South Coulter Ridge, Buffalo Bowl, and North Coulter Ridge)?
 

cosmoliu

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The Hobacks are elevation and exposure (sun) challenged. I've either been there too early in the season (inadequate coverage) or too late in the season (mashed potatoes) to enjoy them. I suspect that they would be great fun right after a cold storm, but I haven't lucked into that scenario. Maybe your late January trip will find Goldilocks conditions over there.
 

jgiddyup

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Not much difference in overall difficulty in the Hobacks IMO and I'm one of those upper intermediate/ low advanced types. I've skied them 3 times in excellent chopped up powder conditions that have eluded @cosmoliu. Even with fat skis I think you would need 8in of fresh to not regularly bottom out on the bumps which will be prevalent top to bottom. I suck at bumps but enjoyed it just for the experience. I wouldn't go back out there unless it was powder bumps/powder or soft spring conditions.

In soft snow the Aprevous liftline/Teewinot Face is lots O fun as is Casper Bowl via the traverse off the Gondola but the traverse isn't real fun. The traverse only accesses the lower half of Casper Bowl. Cosmo and Bmore are spot on with what they've said in the areas I can ski such as the whole Pepi's area. Buffalo Bowl is nice in soft snow and you can see exactly what you're in for. Also the trees skiers right of the middle section of the run named Ranger off the gondola are nice.

Have fun!
 

RJS

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@TheArchitect @TonyPlush the best guide I've found is the official Pugski one, although I wish that the images would display. I've found some random ones just from doing internet searching: this one is helpful, so is this one.

It's not exactly a guide, but I love this iPad app called FATMAP that gives you a Google Earth-style view of ski resorts including Jackson where you can use your fingers to rotate the 3D map and see the terrain from all sorts of angles. What is especially helpful though is that you can click on the trails, and the app will give you 1) stats about the run, including the max pitch, vertical, etc. and 2) for many runs, there will be a description of the run from someone who knows the mountain well. The trail descriptions for Jackson have been pretty decent. I recommend checking out this app if you haven't already. It's free to use, you have to pay for it if you want to download the maps for offline use.

@cosmoliu, @bmoreiskier and @jgiddyup thank you all for your insights. This is all really helpful.
 
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TheArchitect

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Thanks, @RJS I'll check out those other guides you linked to. I've already found the one @bmoreiskier linked.
 

Tom K.

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Thanks all. I just booked a hotel for late January. Looking forward to my first JH trip!!!

I'm there the 21st through the 26th or 27th, and have probably logged 500 or so days there starting in 1968.

As an ex-pat Minnesotan, I feel compelled to invite you to join our group of old, good skiers for a tour and/or a beer at The Mangy Moose!

Just PM me when we get closer.
 

Tytlynz64

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If one were to drive from SLC to jackson are there any points with chain restrictions or 4wd mandatory? Need to rent a car and might as well get the right one. Thanks.
 

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