Is my son ready for poles

[Wade]

I just got back from a family vacation to Stowe. My 5 year old, 45lb son is in his third season, and has maybe 30 days of skiing under his belt. He is in a six week morning program at a local bump, has had a couple of private lessons, and has now had seven days at ski school between Stowe and Snowbird.

He was skiing pretty confidently on blue slopes at Stowe before his ski school started, but three days of instruction there really took him to the next level. By the end of the second day, he was confidently skiing black runs with very solid form. My wife and I were skiing and saw his group at one point at the top of the head wall of a pretty icy black run. She took a video of our son skiing it, and is now mad at me because according to her, the video was ruined when I loudly exclaimed "holy sh!t" watching him rip down it with about 4 pretty impressive big, fast turns

He had two instructors over the three days. Both gave me detailed feedback on what they had worked on, and both and clearly knew what they were talking about. However one instructor said he was ready for poles, and the other said that it should be pushed off a while. The instructor who said he was ready actually gave him some poles to try and said he did fine.

Any thoughts on how to tell that a kid is ready for poles? If he is ready, what should I be talking to him about in terms of how to use them?

 

[David Chaus]

If he can grip the poles and not drop them randomly, he's ready for them. After taking the PSIA Children's Specialist Certification (CS1), I like my Never-Evers to use poles as long as they can hold them.

 

[Crank]

Yes on poles. If nothing else it helps them get around on the flats and in the lift line.

Use a basic video editing program to bring the sound down where you "ruined" your wife's video.

 

[James]

If he can hold them pointing back he's good. He's likely not to use them when he has them so don't panic.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Give him the poles.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Who were his coaches, btw?

 

[Josh Matta]

Well Ill take the contrary point of view.

There is no reason EVER for never ever to have poles. Any age. Poles will only teach people to rely on their poles and not for moving.balancing with their legs and feet, and just about every never ever I have taught with poles will try to slow down or turn by dragging them. Struggling on flats is better than relying on poles. Learn to SKATE! learn to herringbone, learn to side step.

AS for the original posters son. He is ready for poles from skiing stand point if he is doing as much as possible correctly with his feet, and his hands are stable. For an age/maturity stand point can they hold them getting on off lifts and will they go up the hill to get them if it should drop out of their hands? I for one will not ski with a young student with poles until I know that I am not carrying them up the lift everytime. For giving anyone poles too early will cause the focus to be where it doesn't really matter, you can ski anywhere on the mountain with out poles assuming that everything else is working correctly.

As for coaches giving kids poles, this does not necessarily describe your sons coach but very well might the case a ton of coaches will give kids(and adult) poles for reason that are entirely bull crap and/or just to make the instructor life easier. Giving kids poles to early just they can get though flats WHEN it as the stage it is detrimental to their skiing just to get though flats make no sense to me. The other reason is that the instructor want to show progress to the parents by saying "They are ready for poles" , then the parent thinks wow they are getting better, when the reality is the coach is just looking for something to say. I have no idea with out video if this is the case, but its the case 99 percent of the time.

I would go so far to say you can be solid level 6 what Stowe Ski School call Catamount with out poles. Curious was your son a Rabbit, Fox or Catamount? and that video would be sweet, the language I could care less about. Also does you kids ski parallel with no wedge? In the stowe ski school Foxes(level 5, aka supposely matched skis all the time on blue terrain which is quite often not true) get poles, I feel it really should not happen to Catamount(L6) and even then in some cases it really does not need to happen.

 

[Xela]

One of my daughters has had poles for years now, but every time I look, she's holding them in front of her like two dead squirrels by the tails. They don't seem to interfere with her skiing, but I don't really see that she's got the rhythm and purpose down.

 

[Josh Matta]

@Xela that is normally a sign of poles that are to large. I would take them away though and see if it she skis better.......

 

[David Chaus]

There is reason for never evers to have poles. Any age. Poles will teach people to utilize their poles for moving, balancing with their legs and feet, and just about everything.

FIFW

Just my opinion of course, but my experience is at age 5 most of them get it and don't use them as a crutch. At age 6-7 and up I can coach on pole plants once they have the basics of turns and helps them commit to a turn. It also helps them feel more stable when side stepping uphill, or skating. I also have them hold their poles, both hand on both poles in front of them as a drill, plus it's handy to set up a course for them turn around. My class will hear me frequently reminding them "grips up, tips down" which does wonders for their arms and upper body awareness. "Squeeze your grips" is another, by doing so they also tighten their core and legs, which they really need to develop.

FWIW use of poles from the earliest time possible is considered best practices for PSIA Children's Specialists (and Senior Specialists, I think).

 

[Jilly]

Yes to poles. Long as he respects them, uses them for what they are supposed to do.....ie....no stabbing people! And does drop or lose them on purpose!

 

[Josh Matta]

I said never ever, now you are talking about Level 5 up . Just because the PSIA says it doesnt make it true.....the PSIA current models for pole touches is way to much of a plant. I also have never heard of CS specialist trying to use poles really early.

I never ever Squeeze my grip and I could just imagine that upper body awareness is not being translate to correct upper body counter movement, if you really try to grip your poles you end up rotating your upper body at the end of every turn.

 

[AmyPJ]

Buy cheap ones is my advice. My daughter dropped one of hers under a chair yesterday in her lesson, and my husband had to go ski under the chair to find it at the end of the day. Not always a fun chair to ski under, either. Had he not been able to get it, we would have had to buy new poles. We paid under $10 for these, so no harm, no foul.

 

[Wade]

Who were his coaches, btw?

Molly and Haven. Both delivered really good feedback to me at the end of their respective days - didn't seem to be rushing through it at all and were happy to answer any questions I had.

Most of all though, my son really enjoyed skiing with both of them, and his skiing improved. We really had a great overall experience with the ski school.

 

[David Chaus]

Josh, I'm not talking about level 5, I'm taking about 5-year-olds. Some can grip poles without losing them, some can't. If they can, they use them in my class, if they're tall enough. I had one little guy who rips around older skiers, but his family hasn't found poles small enough to fit him. Most 6 year-olds and above I had this year managed poles just fine and they continued to progress as skiers. I agree that if you don't teach them how to incorporate poles into their skiing, poles can become a distraction rather than a tool.

 

[Wade]

Well Ill take the contrary point of view.

There is no reason EVER for never ever to have poles. Any age. Poles will only teach people to rely on their poles and not for moving.balancing with their legs and feet, and just about every never ever I have taught with poles will try to slow down or turn by dragging them. Struggling on flats is better than relying on poles. Learn to SKATE! learn to herringbone, learn to side step.

AS for the original posters son. He is ready for poles from skiing stand point if he is doing as much as possible correctly with his feet, and his hands are stable. For an age/maturity stand point can they hold them getting on off lifts and will they go up the hill to get them if it should drop out of their hands? I for one will not ski with a young student with poles until I know that I am not carrying them up the lift everytime. For giving anyone poles too early will cause the focus to be where it doesn't really matter, you can ski anywhere on the mountain with out poles assuming that everything else is working correctly.

As for coaches giving kids poles, this does not necessarily describe your sons coach but very well might the case a ton of coaches will give kids(and adult) poles for reason that are entirely bull crap and/or just to make the instructor life easier. Giving kids poles to early just they can get though flats WHEN it as the stage it is detrimental to their skiing just to get though flats make no sense to me. The other reason is that the instructor want to show progress to the parents by saying "They are ready for poles" , then the parent thinks wow they are getting better, when the reality is the coach is just looking for something to say. I have no idea with out video if this is the case, but its the case 99 percent of the time.

I would go so far to say you can be solid level 6 what Stowe Ski School call Catamount with out poles. Curious was your son a Rabbit, Fox or Catamount? and that video would be sweet, the language I could care less about. Also does you kids ski parallel with no wedge? In the stowe ski school Foxes(level 5, aka supposely matched skis all the time on blue terrain which is quite often not true) get poles, I feel it really should not happen to Catamount(L6) and even then in some cases it really does not need to happen.

In terms of level, they had him in a Fox group, and then I guess an in between "Fox-amount" group. They skied mostly blue, but some black runs, and split time between the forerunner, gondola, sensation and sunny spruce.

I'm not too worried about him getting around without poles. He is very good with herringboning and side stepping, and is almost skating at times when he gets moving quickly with a herringbone move. The only time he struggles a little is if he has to move quickly to get on a lift.

I found the video. This was on Main Street Headwall on Friday. Other than a small amount of soft snow on the far left side of the run, it was a sheet of ice. The kids before him had made maybe 10 to 15 turns to get down this. After he made his first turn I thought he was going to have an epic wipe out and slide for a long way, but I thought he skied it pretty well.

 

[Jilly]

Love it. Not sure if poles would be of help now that I see that. Maybe next year?

 

[Josh Matta]

not even close for poles.

 

[James]

One of my daughters has had poles for years now, but every time I look, she's holding them in front of her like two dead squirrels by the tails. They don't seem to interfere with her skiing, but I don't really see that she's got the rhythm and purpose down.

Well when they hold them like that they should probably not have them. Very common with girls. You might go 4 inches shorter. They're just in the way. Make sure she can actually grip them with her mitten or glove. It might be a problem.

People get weird about pole length. It's like more of a law than ski length. The pole upside down elbow square business. God forbid one violates that measuring system -you'll...I don't know what. Get arrested by the pole calibrators? The kids are barely using them, or likely not using them so go short and get them out of the way.

 

[Wade]

Love it. Not sure if poles would be of help now that I see that. Maybe next year?

That's kind of where I'm at with it. He's most of the way through this season without poles. His 6th birthday is in the fall - maybe poles as one of his presents so he has them for next season.