Is my brand new Shift binding defective?

[neonorchid]

The toe of the Scarpa boot looks, um, well loved. Is there a chance that the holes the pins go in got burred or knocked out of alignment? I have Tecnica Cochise but never hooked them up to a touring binding. I'm not sure how the holes are anchored in the lug or if they are a press fit directly into the plastic.

https://www.wildsnow.com/22982/history-dynafit-boot-tech-fittings/

 

[Andy Mink]

https://www.wildsnow.com/22982/history-dynafit-boot-tech-fittings/

That doesn't look like it would bend or get out of alignment very easily. Interesting history.

 

[ScottB]

Firstly, the two position lever gives you two levels of release when in touring mode; easy and hard. Please note that in hard (the up position), the toe wings are not fully-locked out, there is still release, but it's at higher tension. Secondly the only change to the binding from this year to last year (that I am aware of) is that they put a little cosmetic (2 little arrows) on the new Shift's to designate the two positions of the lever in the touring mode.

I got my boots and put them into both of the Shift's (this years and last years). On both bindings, there was a noticeable increase in tension on the arms and more friction in the cups/pins as a result. This is normal though, it's held in place with more internal force. If I lifted the boot vertically in the stiffest setting of the tour mode, then the heal of the boot does want to stay up in the air. A slight nudge and it falls down though. There is less resistance in both bindings when the arms are set on the lower pressure tour setting and the boot does not stay up in the air like it does in the stiffer mode.

I toured on that binding all season last year with the binding set on the stiffest setting in tour mode. I didn't notice any extra friction/resistance when touring on it, when body weight comes into play. I don't really think it's an issue, unless you have bent pins that are really over doing the friction. I didn't notice a bedding in period myself, they seemed to work just fine out of the box. Maybe yours is a slightly tighter fit and a little bit of use they will smooth out. Check and see if the little recess on the pins (used to clear out ice from the plugs on your boots when then pins are engaged) are nice and smooth and there is no extra metal flash exposed.

The energy required to lift the touring lever all the way up when the boot is in the system is quite high. It's a lot of work. If you can learn to use your ski pole (most likely the extended notch on the front of the ski pole grip on a touring pole, the ski basket is likely too soft on most poles to get that lever all the way up) to lift the lever all the way up, it's way less effort and a lot quicker for your transitions.
Hope this gives you some more ideas @ScottB.

- Matt

Matt, thanks for the reply. Your observations match up with mine. I did check the pins on my set up and they are smooth and not bent. The amount of friction on my bindings is similar to yours. I noticed it and wasn't sure if "not being friction free" was an issue. I think it is safe to say it is not an issue. I did a short tour and I did think I could tell the difference due to the friction, but I was focusing in on it, I doubt I would have noticed if I wasn't looking for it. It is in the very minor category.

I did fiddle with it the other day in my shop, I put some waterproof grease on the pins, wiped off any excess and then tried the lift the boot and feel the friction test. The grease worked, the boot would flop down even on the second, harder setting. So like all things in life, a little lube really helps.

One last thing, I did try a different boot and a different shift binding and all combo's had the slight increase in friction in "lock" mode. They all acted the same. Didn't bring the lube for that experiment.

 

[Mike Rogers]

The toe of the Scarpa boot looks, um, well loved. Is there a chance that the holes the pins go in got burred or knocked out of alignment? I have Tecnica Cochise but never hooked them up to a touring binding. I'm not sure how the holes are anchored in the lug or if they are a press fit directly into the plastic.

Yeah, lots of rock bashing/scrambling to get to the top of peaks. It eats up boots. Most of my friends with similar mountaineering ambitions get about 3-5 years out of a shell.

The fittings are fine. I don't actually have an issue with either set of binding and haven't noticed any resistance when touring.

My experience is the same as @Mattadvproject

On a related note, the Dynafit quick step inserts on the Maestralles aren't officially approved for the shifts, but shops have been seeing smooth releases and don't seem to have a problem with the combo. Blister actually tested the binding with the Maestralles and haven't shared any feedback from Salomon or the reps.

Buyer beware, anyway.

 

[firebanex]

I messed around with my Shifts over the weekend with the toe lock out. I was having a lot of difficulty trying to lock out the toes using my hand to pull the lever, but when I switched to hooking the lever with the hookthingy of my ski pole grip it locked out quite easily. Now this doesn't quite sound like your experience at all, but it might just be a leverage issue locking the toe out.

 

[ScottB]

I messed around with my Shifts over the weekend with the toe lock out. I was having a lot of difficulty trying to lock out the toes using my hand to pull the lever, but when I switched to hooking the lever with the hookthingy of my ski pole grip it locked out quite easily. Now this doesn't quite sound like your experience at all, but it might just be a leverage issue locking the toe out.

I am having the same issue with leverage as you. My ski pole doesn't have a hook, so I am just doing it by hand. Again, just getting used to new equipment and its quirks.

 

[Mattadvproject]

I messed around with my Shifts over the weekend with the toe lock out. I was having a lot of difficulty trying to lock out the toes using my hand to pull the lever, but when I switched to hooking the lever with the hookthingy of my ski pole grip it locked out quite easily. Now this doesn't quite sound like your experience at all, but it might just be a leverage issue locking the toe out.

Hookthingy on the ski pole grip for the win! I find it way easier to pull the toe lever up using the pole than by hand. Much better leverage, quicker and less energy.... good move firebanex!

 

[Slim]

My wife had a different issue with her Shifts this past weekend:
There was vertical play in the toe of the left binding. Almost 1/4”.
I finally figured out it was a case of improper mountain/adjustment.
The front toe welt was catching underneath the black plastic bumper that it was supposed to sit against. This lead to the entire boots being to low isn’t he front, so the toe welt was not touching the bottom of the binding toe wings.
Simple once I realized it.
So be aware, that it’s possible to set up the boot in the dinging incorrectly like this, and it will step in and out just like normal.

 

[TSQURD]

Question for @Mike Rogers - I tour with a pair of Maestralles also & just had a set of shifts mounted. When in clicked in, in ski mode, does your boot contact the AFD? I’ve got the AFD in the lowest position, but one of the lugs of the sole of the boot still makes contact with AFD

 

[Slim]

Question for @Mike Rogers - I tour with a pair of Maestralles also & just had a set of shifts mounted. When in clicked in, in ski mode, does your boot contact the AFD? I’ve got the AFD in the lowest position, but one of the lugs of the sole of the boot still makes contact with AFD

The manual says 0.5mm gap.
Sounds like a little shaving down of that row of lugs on the boot is in order

 

[TSQURD]

The manual says 0.5mm gap.
Sounds like a little shaving down of that row of lugs on the boot is in order

Yea, thanks. Started to go down that path, but decided to hold off & ask. On Saturday, I stopped by the shop that mounted, them but the tech wasn't in. The guy I spoke with said very confidently that the spec was 0 - 0.5mm. Think I'll be shaving a little off the bottom...

 

[Slim]

@TSQURD,
After all, 0.5mm is not going to make a noticeable difference to the walking or durability of the boots ;-)

I don’t really like how the AFD raises by tilting up. On my wife’s Cochise, which have very flat soles, the AFD is tilted up at a very steep angle, so the boot only touches along a narrow edge, and it touches behind the smooth hard part of the Gripwalk sole. I wish the AFD would raise more level somehow.
Odlyy enough, the Gripwalk sole that I got for my daughters Jr Cochise team boot, is much more rockered.

 

[Doug Briggs]

@TSQURD , The AFD is adjustable. Have you tried adjusting it?

 

[Slim]

@TSQURD , The AFD is adjustable. Have you tried adjusting it?

He said he had it in it’s lowest position.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Thanks. I was reading too quickly.

Before shaving off the boot sole, try testing the return to center function of the binding. If you can kick the toe to the side and it returns to center as expected, then don't worry about the clearance (Clarence ).

Also, the friction of the pins the OP mentions may be ameliorated by the presence of snow and cold. While the following is a different situation it illustrates the vagueries of 'dry' testing system that are intended for outdoor use. When we test bindings with the Vt Calibrator and they don't function as desired, we clean the boot toes with liquid dish soap and leave some soap on the boot to reduce friction in the boot/binding interface to simulate being in the cold and snow. This is recommended by the manufacturer, not something we made up in the shop.

 

[Mike Rogers]

Question for @Mike Rogers - I tour with a pair of Maestralles also & just had a set of shifts mounted. When in clicked in, in ski mode, does your boot contact the AFD? I’ve got the AFD in the lowest position, but one of the lugs of the sole of the boot still makes contact with AFD

Hi, sorry about the late reply.

I didn't really worry about the clearance. I think it was okay, but I have my boots in the shop right now, so I can't check.

I managed to break the ski/walk lever on one of the boots over the weekend. Fortunately, I was stuck in ski mode, so I was still able to enjoy the tour. On a side note, i was surprised at how okay touring was with a loosened but still rigid boot.