Is it the clubs and pass holders or the weekend masses that bring in the most money?

[Goose]

We get people complaining at our local hill even though the trail map designates the trail as a "race trail which may be closed for racing or training". My response is that the racers will be out there pretty much regardless of conditions whereas the general public will bag it if the weather is less than perfect.

I get what your saying but "less than perfect"? is an over exaggeration. Ive been in plenty of zoo like atmospheres with the masses on many many days far from perfect. But yea, i do get when things get really that bad they do back off. Part of that has to do with families with kids. And its in part why the hills need and want the pre season sales and the guaranteed income from the clubs and schools. Thats all imo perfectly understandable. But that still doesnt diminish the important revenue the masses do bring in when they are there. Nor does it mean the hill should ignore the wants and needs of them. It is still in their own best interest to treat them as well as is possible.

Im not suggesting you personally but some of the posts or should i perhaps say implied "mindset" of some folks are that the organizations, schools and clubs are so responsible for the existence of the hill that the masses, instead of complaining should feel lucky they are even on the hill to begin with. And while in enough places it may be true that the schools and clubs are the major supporting power, it shouldnt dismiss the importance of the revenue also brought in by the other. . Also the ratio of the different support avenues is different from one resort to another. The masses can mean more at one place than it does another. But even when its a much smaller portion of the total support its still significant to existence and profit. . In the end its all significant and any business needs to cater as well as possible to all their avenues of its support.

So when the hills need to do their thing for the clubs/schools/whatever and cut into the masses recreation its understandable. while that can be understood and even accepted it doesnt have to bring joy. And there may not be much a hill can do about it because it means too much to its existence and there is only so much space. But its still in their best interest to do what they can when they can. They still need to listen with an open ear and make effort to try to do what they reasonably can to accommodate. And im not saying they arent doing that already. Many probably are doing the best they can with what they have. But what i am saying is something a bit contrary to some of the implied logic is that you cant just ignore or dismiss it as though they are not important nor should they be made to feel as though they should lucky they are even here. Because their support , whatever amount or ratio it is vs the other is still very significant. It a lot of money you want/need to keep.

 

[Jersey Skier]

I don't get why this is any different than buying from Liftopia (or whatever pre-arrival online arrangement you use)? Maybe I'm not reading it closely enough? Here (independent area) you can save money by buying in advance online or buying the Frequent Skier card in December which gives you a reduced price on tickets all season.

I guess it's similar but different. Liftopia typically has limited number of tickets available for any given day and you must purchase for a specific date and place. Epic Day pass allows you to just by discounted tickets for any Epic resort and no specific dates. So in my case I can buy three for four tickets for my wife and and either use them for a trip out west or a weekend or two at Stowe or Okemo. Epic also lets you purchase more discounted tickets or upgrade to an Epic Pass later. But, once again, they want the money now(ish). These day passes will not be on sale forever.

 

[Goose]

to add to my last post and to ask a question......speaking locally, would Blue, or camback, jack, shawnee , montage, elk, whatever......still exist if all the daytripper and wekend masses that make up the zoos stopped coming over? Would they have to close up? or would they still not only survive but also make a profit worthwhile of staying open?

 

[Jersey Skier]

to add to my last post and to ask a question......speaking locally, would Blue, or camback, jack, shawnee , montage, elk, whatever......still exist if all the daytripper and wekend masses that make up the zoos stopped coming over? Would they have to close up? or would they still not only survive but also make a profit worthwhile of staying open?

Could be the opposite situation of Plattekill. They are only open Fri, Sat & Sun to the general public. I guess they don't get enough pass holders who would show up during the week. But their "masses" will show up on weekends and buy tickets.

 

[Marker]

It occurs to me that a purchaser of day tickets can be converted to a season pass holder if they like the mountain and its services well enough, or vice a versa if their situations change, so that cash flow is not likely to completely disappear. However, a resort that doesn't serve its race programs well will lose funds that aren't coming back. It would seem that the loss of a race program at a small hill will have a larger impact on its revenues? While a race program makes a smaller impact at a place like Killington in terms of revenue and required mountain resources?

 

[Goose]

Could be the opposite situation of Plattekill. They are only open Fri, Sat & Sun to the general public. I guess they don't get enough pass holders who would show up during the week. But their "masses" will show up on weekends and buy tickets.

Didnt Pico in VT (now owned by the bg K) also at one point only open towards the weekend as well?

 

[Jersey Skier]

@Goose Not sure if you saw the costs of their various racing programs on their website. $300-$730 for youth, plus the cost of season pass.

 

[Goose]

It occurs to me that a purchaser of day tickets can be converted to a season pass holder if they like the mountain and its services well enough, or vice a versa if their situations change, so that cash flow is not likely to completely disappear. However, a resort that doesn't serve its race programs well will lose funds that aren't coming back. It would seem that the loss of a race program at a small hill will have a larger impact on its revenues? While a race program makes a smaller impact at a place like Killington in terms of revenue and required mountain resources?

from what many in the thread have stated, The programs are certainly of great value (maybe even most value) to the hills existence. But also as said in the thread, things can be different at the different places. And of course being near a dense population makes for better everything...except of course the crowds..lol

 

[S.H.]

Didnt Pico in VT (now owned by the bg K) also at one point only open towards the weekend as well?

Pico only operates 5 days/week (closed Tue/Wed).

 

[Goose]

@Goose Not sure if you saw the costs of their various racing programs on their website. $300-$730 for youth, plus the cost of season pass.

I assume your talking about Blue?

A season pass on sale for blue can be had right now for $430. thats a awesome deal assuming you get enough ski days from now and is good through next year.

But id assume the season pass wouldnt be much more than that for them even when the price goes back to the normal 600 or so.

 

[Goose]

Pico only operates 5 days/week (closed Tue/Wed).

and thats now while under the big K. What about before? I thought i recalled at some point it being like something like just Thursday thru sunday or something like that. i could be very wrong there.

 

[Marker]

from what many in the thread have stated, The programs are certainly of great value (maybe even most value) to the hills existence. But also as said in the thread, things can be different at the different places. And of course being near a dense population makes for better everything...except of course the crowds..lol

It doesn't sound like you'll be converted to a Blue season passholder, but you'll continue to visit with day tickets. I suspect Blue can't afford to loss its race program revenue, so the races must go on!

 

[Marker]

I assume your talking about Blue?

A season pass on sale for blue can be had right now for $430. thats a awesome deal assuming you get enough ski days from now and is good through next year.

But id assume the season pass wouldnt be much more than that for them even when the price goes back to the normal 600 or so.

If you like Blue and you think that price is reasonable, you should purchase a season pass now and get those line privileges! I suspect you'll find excuses to take weekday trips to get open terrain. Blue feels very different mid-week the few times I could swing it.

 

[S.H.]

and thats now while under the big K. What about before? I thought i recalled at some point it being like something like just Thursday thru sunday or something like that. i could be very wrong there.

I'm pretty sure it operated Thu-Sun even after being bought by K. The Monday operation is fairly recent.

 

[Goose]

If you like Blue and you think that price is reasonable, you should purchase a season pass now and get those line privileges! I suspect you'll find excuses to take weekday trips to get open terrain. Blue feels very different mid-week the few times I could swing it.

Trust me I do consider it. I almost pulled the trigger last year end of season sale. Its a great deal and im considering it now for me and my son. But look what happened to me this year. I/we just couldnt get to go but only a few days. Life and family obs got in the way. It would have been a loss so it was the right move.

 

[Living Proof]

Trust me I do consider it. I almost pulled the trigger last year end of season sale. Its a great deal and im considering it now for me and my son. But look what happened to me this year. I/we just couldnt get to go but only a few days. Life and family obs got in the way. It would have been a loss so it was the right move.

Each fall, Blue has been offering multi-day passes at great prices as part of the pre-season only specials. On the down side of the current deal for next year passes is that the big weekend crowds are, in part, due to the relatively low season pass rates. My first season pass was bought late in the year to take advantage of free skiing for the remander of that year.
BTW, I do think Blue is somewhat unique in support of racing in that they have so few expert runs. Sucks for the paying public, not sure if it is anywhere near the issue at mountains where more terrain is available. I used to get pissed early in the season when only Main Street was open, and, it was set-up for gate training on one side. The racing culture at Blue carries a lot of weight.

 

[Goose]

Each fall, Blue has been offering multi-day passes at great prices as part of the pre-season only specials. On the down side of the current deal for next year passes is that the big weekend crowds are, in part, due to the relatively low season pass rates. My first season pass was bought late in the year to take advantage of free skiing for the remander of that year.
BTW, I do think Blue is somewhat unique in support of racing in that they have so few expert runs. Sucks for the paying public, not sure if it is anywhere near the issue at mountains where more terrain is available. I used to get pissed early in the season when only Main Street was open, and, it was set-up for gate training on one side. The racing culture at Blue carries a lot of weight.

Ive taken advantage of those early season triple plays. Thaw work out well for us. Even double up on them. But thats the most i could garantee so if there is more im paying at gate,. bt yea ive gotten the impression that blue seems to be a biggie as for pocono racing etc... But fwiw its a nice mountain relatively speaking. And being its the second closest one to me it works well for us.

Montage (another 45mins) was good while my kids were younger. that was a good place in the poc's to teach and ski with them all over that top half. . and the bottom half, though small is a great set up in the sense that only the blacks are there so you can get a crap load of runs in. Its short and and quick down but its quick back up. so it ends up alot of skiing vs waiting on the lines at Blue. But i havnt been to mantage in a number of years. I wonder how things still are there? especially on that bottom.

 

[SKI-3PO]

While overall, the terrain at Montage isn’t as good as Blue and the slow lifts are annoying, the lack of crowds especially on the lower advanced section of the mountain will always have me there on a weekend instead of Blue.

 

[Goose]

While overall, the terrain at Montage isn’t as good as Blue and the slow lifts are annoying, the lack of crowds especially on the lower advanced section of the mountain will always have me there on a weekend instead of Blue.

honestly from what i recall those short and non sustaining steeps at Montage are as steep as anything just about anywhere in the poconos. Granted they are broken non sustained steeps but none the less they are steep as most anything during those short spurts. And the white lightning run with its pitch and bumps and a bity more sustained might be about one the more difficult runs in the area. Blue dont have that. But im no longer really the steep bump skier i once was decent enough at. And if i recall it was most often boiler plate anyway and not enjoyable more often than not.

None the less I can certainly give that bottom half of montage some respect. And considering the lift lines (or lack of) you can get a lot of skiing on its broken short steeps. especially since the entire bottom is black and doub blk so you not mixed in with the masses as much. thats one thing that blue lacks....the ability to separate blks from tthe rest due to its set up. No matter which chair we can find all levels of skiers. Its a big positve for montage that they are able to do that by dividing the top and bottom. just the luck of the landscape. That place certainly has its positives for a small hill. I just dont know if the snow making is as generous as Blue. Blue I feel is one the best at it and they dont skimp. if they can blow it, they blow it.

Montage (im pretty sure) use to be state run and of course with that came municipal economics and with that came poor decisions and lack of blown snow. the one thing at montage that was bad was the lodge tables were "all" used as storage and you couldnt ever sit without moving others belongings, bags, and whatever from the tables and also from under at your feet Considering they had lockers and also stroage check i found it disturbing they allowed so much of that to go on as badly as it did. i wonder if that has changed??

 

[Jim McDonald]

let's trudge on to page 8, folks...