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fatbob

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Hmm. Interesting. Saying the right reassuring things for local communities about real estate strategy and local for local management. Not overly convinced about the argument that there are lots of opportunties for indies because I'm not convinced that the funding is there in the same way for a little guy as for a 2000lb gorilla (and to be fair he acknowledges it as not being the same).

Most interesting for me is the development for what guests most want. I'd hazard that at most of the portfolio destination skiers have a pretty different set of requirements to the locals/weekend warriors yet the payoff must me in driving destination $ while preserving the other (locals cover the overhead, tourists drive the profit). Maybe that's a wrong way of thinking about it and resorts can be sliced and diced based on their specific demographics
 

Goran M.

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Alterra is not unique. Their PR tries hard to make it look like with these “let me tell you why are we different” interviews but in reality they are MTN clone
 

Magi

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Alterra is not unique. Their PR tries hard to make it look like with these “let me tell you why are we different” interviews but in reality they are MTN clone

I feel like a MTN clone would be doing everything they can to push development in the WP Village instead of partnering with the town of WP to grow things there.

:huh:
 

Philpug

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Alterra is not unique. Their PR tries hard to make it look like with these “let me tell you why are we different” interviews but in reality they are MTN clone
A clone would have regional pass options and more than two pricing levels. Yes, there are some similarities but hardly a clone.
 

fatbob

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Semantics. Alterra definitely have better PR at the moment and being privately owned have a bit more leeway to do things their way. But if there is any point to the play it is about leveraging size and scale. Otherwise it's just a bit of a fluffy story with no real point.
 

Magi

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Semantics. Alterra definitely have better PR at the moment and being privately owned have a bit more leeway to do things their way. But if there is any point to the play it is about leveraging size and scale. Otherwise it's just a bit of a fluffy story with no real point.

Absolutely. *How* you leverage size and scale is important here. So far - Alterra is focusing a lot of attention (and money) on how to keep the mountains unique and local while leveraging that scale.
 

Wilhelmson

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It's a nice concept but he avoided the real estate question and didn't provide any specifics regarding the decentralized managment.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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Hmm. Interesting. Saying the right reassuring things for local communities about real estate strategy and local for local management.

Most interesting for me is the development for what guests most want. I'd hazard that at most of the portfolio destination skiers have a pretty different set of requirements to the locals/weekend warriors yet the payoff must me in driving destination $ while preserving the other (locals cover the overhead, tourists drive the profit). Maybe that's a wrong way of thinking about it and resorts can be sliced and diced based on their specific demographics

I am hugely skeptical. This is the same guy who said much the same thing when Mammoth purchased BBMR. That was a big crock then. They completely disregarded the local community and the mountain vibe and created a complete cluster. Then told the local city council it was their fault for not having a strong enough bus service. The attitude here now is very skeptical about Alterra. Last year, the city had to pay the county Sherrifs overtime to direct traffic on the weekend and that was during our worst snow year that I can remember.
 

Wasatchman

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A clone would have regional pass options and more than two pricing levels. Yes, there are some similarities but hardly a clone.
What other pricing levels does Vail offer outside of local and full epic pass?

Vail offers only very limited local pricing options - Tahoe and Whistler as far as I remember.

The two main IKON passes seem very similar in price to Epic and Epic local to me.

There are some differences, but to me it does seem like IKON is trying to be more like Vail Epic pass. Targeted advertising with Google, very similar price structures, etc. Consensus of Utah locals that I know seems to be of the mindset Alterra is more like Vail than not. I don't know many Utah locals who seem to be embracing Alterra.

Would be interested in hearing from other Pugskiers whose home mountains are part of Alterra what they think. Might be the crowd I hang with, but it seems locals on Pugski are also more concerned about Alterra than stoked about it.

I'd be interested to hear what other locals at Alterra owned resorts think.
 
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SBrown

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What other pricing levels does Vail offer outside of local and full epic pass?

Vail offers only very limited local pricing options - Tahoe and Whistler as far as I remember.

The two main IKON passes seem very similar in price to Epic and Epic local to me.

There are some differences, but to me it does seem like IKON is trying to be more like Vail Epic pass. Targeted advertising with Google, very similar price structures, etc. Consensus of Utah locals that I know seems to be of the mindset Alterra is more like Vail than not. I don't know many Utah locals who seem to be embracing Alterra.

Would be interested in hearing from other Pugskiers whose home mountains are part of Alterra what they think. Might be the crowd I hang with, but it seems locals on Pugski are also more concerned about Alterra than stoked about it.

I'd be interested to hear what other locals at Alterra owned resorts think.

I don't think we can judge that quite yet ... Ikon Pass is so new.
 

dbostedo

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Consensus of Utah locals that I know seems to be of the mindset Alterra is more like Vail than not.

Well compared to having a bunch of separately owned independent mountains, any conglomerate ownership/passes are going to seem more like Vail than not.

That said, IMO, from a consumer's perspective, so far all the chatter of how Alterra would be so different and nothing like Vail seem to have all been hot air.
 

mikel

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What other pricing levels does Vail offer outside of local and full epic pass? Vail offers only very limited local pricing options - Tahoe and Whistler as far as I remember.

https://www.epicpass.com/pass-results/passes.aspx

My home mountain is an Alterra partner. I'm still waiting for Telluride to release the pricing of the 3 day pass but it is quite possible I may end up with an Epic 4 day pass this season. It will work out to about $110 per ski day if that happens.
 

ski otter 2

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Eliminating the senior pass option and the option to get just Copper and Winter Park both seem to be Alterra imitations of Vail, or worse (since Vail offers a far cheaper pass for just Keystone and A Basin). Vail is one of the few without a senior pass. And is there actually a local option with Alterra for Front Range skiers? Doesn't seem like it. So, for me, price just went up on both counts around 50%, just because of name change/ownership change.
 

Gary Stolt

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When you look at Vail or Alterra, they are in business to make money. The best way to do that is to have happy customers that are willing and eager to spend money. They are not pricing to IKON pass at $600 so we can ski cheap. They are doing it because they feel that is the best way to bring skiers to their mtns and spend money. We should be OK with that. If they don't make money, they will close and we will be watching TV vs skiing the trees. When it comes to making local communities happy, they certainly want to do that but not at the expense of profit. If all of their profit comes from destination skiers, the destination skiers will get the most attention (not necessarily the best deals). We need to remember that they did not purchase these ski resorts to give us a place to ski, they did it to secure their company, their investments and make money which may require change but it is usually good for the community unless you are one that doesn't like growth, change, etc. Change can be difficult to swallow and I think most of us resist it to some degree.
Making money in this business usually means catering to customers that have money - the more the better. But remember, they do want their customers to be happy. Happy customers come back and spend money. I like the ski industry growth because it gives us more and better options. So far, from a macro viewpoint, the consolidations have been good for most of us, driving prices down and providing options.
 

soulskier

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The same for June Mountain, which was promised a new access lift and snowmaking in 2012. Now the company line is they need 1,000 new beds before they will invest any money into June Mountain. Meanwhile winter occupancy rates in June Lake are averaging between 25-40%.

I am hugely skeptical. This is the same guy who said much the same thing when Mammoth purchased BBMR. That was a big crock then. They completely disregarded the local community and the mountain vibe and created a complete cluster. Then told the local city council it was their fault for not having a strong enough bus service. The attitude here now is very skeptical about Alterra. Last year, the city had to pay the county Sherrifs overtime to direct traffic on the weekend and that was during our worst snow year that I can remember.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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The same for June Mountain, which was promised a new access lift and snowmaking in 2012. Now the company line is they need 1,000 new beds before they will invest any money into June Mountain. Meanwhile winter occupancy rates in June Lake are averaging between 25-40%.
If you build it, they will come! We always enjoy skiing June. Some snowmaking on the lower canyon would go a long way as would an updated access lift! They want Big Bear for the same reason they want June ... so Vail can’t buy it!
 

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