eBike Interesting video on E-Bikes

[DoryBreaux]

They're stupid fun, make uphills feel like flats, make decents more planted feeling, and, my favorite, open up mountain biking to a much broader demographic. But when it comes to their acceptance in the US, there probably isn't a more hotly debated topic amongst trail users.
I personally don't have an issue with them from a "chatting" standpoint (is shuttling cheating? Riding a chairlift at a bike park?) especially since it's not a damn race. My issue is the pack of education the bike industry gives consumers (specifically those new to the sport) when purchasing one. This warrents its own thread, but I will say that every time I sell an e-bike, especially to a newbie rider, I make a point to give them a rundown on proper trail etiquette, and how to navigate and avoid the pitfalls of riding an e-bike.
Many people say that e-bikes are only for those with physical hindrances, and while I think that demographic is where e-bikes are an amazing tool, I don't think that's the only demographic that should be "accepted" on them. Here's a video from Paul the Punter that helped solidify my view...

 

[Philpug]

Good video and it is a point I've brought up previously. While I would like to ride with a @WadeHoliday, I would not. Up to now, I would not. Wade was is/was a competitive mountain biker. I would feel uncomfortable having him have to wait for me. Not that he wouldn't but I know myself that I would not enjoy having him wait, it would be putting me way out of my comfort zone. Now, with our new bikes, I would be able to keep up on the climbs but I know that I will still not be able to keep the pace on the downhills and that I would be fine with because I won't physically be putting myself into that awkward situations.

Yes, I am in the ebike camp. I have been since before I bought my last bike, Personally I don't think they are the devil's steed that some believe they are. I am not going to change their mind and I don't think that they will change mine. We can talk about all of the pluses and minuses and etiquette and lack of on the trail, but that is not just ebike problem, that is an education problem.

This back and forth reminds me of when snowboarding started getting popular..hell, they are called ski areas, right? . We can talk about the motor, yes they are powered, but Class 1 will not move w/o pedaling. I also agree, for off road, they have too much power, 600+w is not needed, I know the majority of my riding is in Eco, the lowest power. I question the arguements that people will be riding more...isn't that a good thing, people getting out and doing something? In getting out more they will be doing more damaged to the trails and accessing toughter terrain. Well, the same could be said for a long travel full suspension bikes vs. fully rigid or even front suspension bikes. Every other advancement in technology was a step, this was just a giant leap.

Like the ski industry, the bike industry also needs to grow. The industry is pushing ebikes and because is where the growth and yes, money is. We need our local bike shop, we need knowledgable salespeople and mechanics, we need manufacturers. Talk to any bike shop owner, e-bikes are either keepign them in business or at least making it much easier to stay afloat.

 

[AmyPJ]

We need more trails to accommodate all of the new bikes and e-bikes.
I'm still a resister. I get a lot of personal satisfaction out of climbing faster as the season goes on and tackling sections that are challenging for me. But for me, the biggest issue I've had so far is being caught up from behind on climbs and then hearing "ding ding ding" because it's expected that I should get off of my bike and stop my climb so the e-bikers can pass. Where do you draw the etiquette line? I usually keep riding until a flatter spot, but I'm a climber at heart and REALLY don't like having to stop once I get going.

 

[scott43]

Good point Amy. Someone dings me on an ebike they're going to get a very polite f-u.

 

[Philpug]

We need more trails to accommodate all of the new bikes and e-bikes.
I'm still a resister. I get a lot of personal satisfaction out of climbing faster as the season goes on and tackling sections that are challenging for me. But for me, the biggest issue I've had so far is being caught up from behind on climbs and then hearing "ding ding ding" because it's expected that I should get off of my bike and stop my climb so the e-bikers can pass. Where do you draw the etiquette line? I usually keep riding until a flatter spot, but I'm a climber at heart and REALLY don't like having to stop once I get going.

This is not a sustainable trend, but a fad where we are right now with the amount of bikes on the trail, including ebikes. Next year it (hopefully) will be back to what we are used to with 10% growth verses the 40-50% more traffic we are seeing now...and a lot of "lightly used" used bikes on Craigslist and FBM. As far as your interactions, do you feel the same way when it is someone that might be training for a race or is just a faster/stronger rider and their "personal satistaction of climbing faster" is faster than yours?

I have been out the past few days and I have not passed ONE person on the climb but I have in two way traffic an the uphill rider has the right of way and every time that is what happened, the downhill rider gave way. Because I am aware of etiquette. I have seen seen a lot of newbies out too, brand new clothing, and no dirt on a really nice one-by and most of these were regular bikes. E-bikes have been about 1/3 of the bikes I have seen out and most were in a group mix of regular bikes and E..and all looked to be experienced riders.

Good point Amy. Someone dings me on an ebike they're going to get a very polite f-u.

And most will mostlly smile and say thank you and forget about the encounter while you stew about it for days on end.

 

[scott43]

And most will mostlly smile and say thank you and forget about the encounter while you stew about it for days on end.

Yeah possibly..but I'll have right on my side!!!

 

[scott43]

As far as your interactions, do you feel the same way when it is someone that might be training for a race or is just a faster/stronger rider and their "personal satistaction of climbing faster" is faster than yours?

Seriously though..it comes down to motorized...not someone stronger..it's a motorized vehicle..may as well be a CR80... People have very easily stepped over that threshold without a second thought. I'm rather surprised by it frankly.

 

[DoryBreaux]

Bottom line; if it allows more people to have more fun, I'm all for it. Will I ever get one? Maybe someday... but right now I don't feel a personal need for it. Plus the access issue...

 

[Philpug]

Bottom line; if it allows more people to have more fun, I'm all for it. Will I ever get one? Maybe someday... but right now I don't feel a personal need for it. Plus the access issue...

I revisited Mustang Sally today but I went up West Mustang and down the regular trail. Going up West was interesting, there was a few tight spots I needed to dismount but it was a fun challenge. Magnificent views from the top.

 

[DoryBreaux]

Thanks for letting me know you were over here .
Actually doesn't matter since I don't have a bike right now.
I've climbed West mustang a few times, that's no joke. It's designed to be ridden the other way, but makes for an interesting ride up. And man is the decent on East a blast...

 

[AmyPJ]

This is not a sustainable trend, but a fad where we are right now with the amount of bikes on the trail, including ebikes. Next year it (hopefully) will be back to what we are used to with 10% growth verses the 40-50% more traffic we are seeing now...and a lot of "lightly used" used bikes on Craigslist and FBM. As far as your interactions, do you feel the same way when it is someone that might be training for a race or is just a faster/stronger rider and their "personal satistaction of climbing faster" is faster than yours?

I have been out the past few days and I have not passed ONE person on the climb but I have in two way traffic an the uphill rider has the right of way and every time that is what happened, the downhill rider gave way. Because I am aware of etiquette. I have seen seen a lot of newbies out too, brand new clothing, and no dirt on a really nice one-by and most of these were regular bikes. E-bikes have been about 1/3 of the bikes I have seen out and most were in a group mix of regular bikes and E..and all looked to be experienced riders.


And most will mostlly smile and say thank you and forget about the encounter while you stew about it for days on end.

I think you know the answer to that, because you know me better than to even ask that.

I have been passed as many times while climbing in 6 years of riding here as I have this year by e-bikes alone. I'm not saying that out of arrogance or to brag--I'm a good climber, but I'm also not the youngest out there and and therefore not the fastest--also, Xterra riders train here in September and I have had them overtake me in the past. I cheer them on as they pass.

So, what is proper etiquette by an e-bike while overtaking on a climb?

 

[Philpug]

So, what is proper etiquette by an e-bike while overtaking on a climb?

I think you know the answer to that, because you know me better than to even ask that, too... Same as any other cyclist, "In a safe spot" .

 

[Tom K.]

I'm kind of the poster child rider for not having an e-bike. Still fit, still pretty fast, plenty of time to stay in shape....but tomorrow, I'm borrowing the shop's Trek Rail and giving it a whirl, and I'm stoked!

I'm coming at it from a slightly different perspective -- a sorta kinda dirt bike replacement -- but it should be very interesting. I'll report back.

So, what is proper etiquette by an e-bike while overtaking on a climb?

An overtaking e-biker on an uphill is supposed to ask to pass when it is convenient to you. Hell, I do this on my pedal bike, uphill or downhill. Common courtesy IMO.

Maybe there's hope if we spread the word kindly and gently?!

 

[Philpug]

I'm kind of the poster child rider for not having an e-bike. Still fit, still pretty fast, plenty of time to stay in shape....but tomorrow, I'm borrowing the shop's Trek Rail and giving it a whirl, and I'm stoked!

Intoxicating aren't they. Like a drug.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I had a customer come in a few weeks ago to demo high-end mountain bikes. He was a dentist from the city (for real), and while he has riden a bike, had never mountain biked. His friend was taking him out to try and convert him. He was an avid peloton user and walked in with his Look road pedals and shoes and asked me to install them on the demo bike. So that's our fist conversation. He is sure he wants to be clipped in, and buys some shoes on the spot so that he can. We set him up and his friend shows up and they plan their ride. I tried to intervene and send them to beginner trails, and of course the friend is sure that the trail near the shop are easy enough. OK then... good luck and have fun. A few hours later they come back. Newbie biker is bloody and has snapped both brake levers off the bike (first time it had ever been out of the shop btw). He's talking about his next move - getting an e-bike. To myself, I'm like yeah, sure, what you need is to be going faster... Good luck with that.

 

[Ken_R]

They're stupid fun, make uphills feel like flats, make decents more planted feeling, and, my favorite, open up mountain biking to a much broader demographic. But when it comes to their acceptance in the US, there probably isn't a more hotly debated topic amongst trail users.
I personally don't have an issue with them from a "chatting" standpoint (is shuttling cheating? Riding a chairlift at a bike park?) especially since it's not a damn race. My issue is the pack of education the bike industry gives consumers (specifically those new to the sport) when purchasing one. This warrents its own thread, but I will say that every time I sell an e-bike, especially to a newbie rider, I make a point to give them a rundown on proper trail etiquette, and how to navigate and avoid the pitfalls of riding an e-bike.
Many people say that e-bikes are only for those with physical hindrances, and while I think that demographic is where e-bikes are an amazing tool, I don't think that's the only demographic that should be "accepted" on them. Here's a video from Paul the Punter that helped solidify my view...

Us bigger/heavier guys really suffer on the climbs. I want an e-MTB. It is not a matter of if but when (I get the $). I really do not mind climbing but once the grade gets above say 10% it is just pure suffering for me no matter how fit I am. I need to put well above 200 watts just to keep moving (I had a power meter on my bike for a few years)

 

[Tom K.]

Intoxicating aren't they. Like a drug.

I suspect so. This will be my first foray into the world of e-bikes. Sadly, I am on hold due to unexpected t-storms last night that turned my backyard riding area into a quagmire.

 

[Philpug]

I suspect so. This will be my first foray into the world of e-bikes. Sadly, I am on hold due to unexpected t-storms last night that turned my backyard riding area into a quagmire.

Smart, you don't want to get electrocuted.

 

[Philpug]

To myself, I'm like yeah, sure, what you need is to be going faster... Good luck with that.

Here is another similar story, I was in a shop and the manager asked me what he should do in this situation....
A man called in and special ordered a Cannondale Moterra SE an $8,500 bike with a 180mm Boxxer fork. The bike was for his wife. Paid for, ordered, picked up. Shop got a call a day or so later wanting to return the bike because the wife rode it for about 100 feet and could not steer or ride it. Was speed involved in her decision? Maybe. IMHO this (and your example) is a case of someone thinking the top of the line or most expensive is always the best. How many times have we seen this on the ski wall where a spouse wants "the best" or I am on the [cough]Mantra[/cough], therefore that is the best ski for my buddy Charlie who is just starting or the Aura for my 105lb wife who never skis more than blue goomers.

Back to the return...Sir, we didn't sell you that bike, you bought it. You came to us asking specifically for that bike. What is a salesperson's responsabilty in this situation, do they ask "Are you sure thats what you want?"

 

[scott43]

We used to have this strange phenomenon of people wanting to buy the "biggest" bike they could get. I have no idea why. So we'd have 5'4" guys wanting to buy XL bikes...and you just could not convince them otherwise..so what to do? Cuz I can tell you, that shop guy will probably never sell that Moterra again... Dude can try to sell it on Kijiji. I miss my old shop owner for the "frank" conversations he had in those situations....