Insulated (Synthetic) Ski Jacket

[Monique]

It's the fleece.

Hm.

Well, then, I heartily recommend that Montbell fleece.

(What's that based on? Experience with the jacket or experience with the heavy weight fleece?)

 

[neonorchid]

Hm.

Well, then, I heartily recommend that Montbell fleece.

(What's that based on? Experience with the jacket or experience with the heavy weight fleece?)

Walking, running and standing around my neighborhood in every possible combination I can come up with. Closest being Arc'teryx Shuksan synthetic insulated shell with Patagonia Nano-Air and R2 high loft fleece jacket, both made a huge difference only the fit with wasn't so great.
Also skiied my thin Gore-tex TNF Enzo shell with a fleece and four base layers on a 10º F sunny day in VT and was warm enough. Actually, that day we decided to swap our down mids for fleece when booting up at Killington's gondola parking lot. I was surprised the combo worked as well as it did. Usually I freeze and wouldn't count on a repeat performance. However fleece, especially quality 200 - 300 thick or high loft is often underrated as a warm mid layer - just heavy, stupid thick collar seams, tight collars, small arm holes etc, not the most comfortable for me wrt fit and range of motion.

 

[Monique]

However fleece, especially quality 200 - 300 thick or high loft is often underrated as a warm mid layer - just heavy, stupid thick collar seams, tight collars, small arm holes etc, not the most comfortable for me wrt fit and range of motion.

The fleece I linked sure is heavy, but it fits like a jacket and has roomy arm holes. Worth a look.

I have used fleece as my mid layer for years, but I noticed the pile in my Eddie Bauer quarter-zips wasn't so fluffy anymore, and somehow *koff* they'd also shrunk. Probably.

Anyway, way off topic, unless of course people would like to consider fleece mid layers. I'm a fan. Unlike a puffy, there actually is some chance of breathability if you sweat too much and need to open your pit vents.

 

[neonorchid]

The fleece I linked sure is heavy, but it fits like a jacket and has roomy arm holes. Worth a look.

I have used fleece as my mid layer for years, but I noticed the pile in my Eddie Bauer quarter-zips wasn't so fluffy anymore, and somehow *koff* they'd also shrunk. Probably.

Anyway, way off topic, unless of course people would like to consider fleece mid layers. I'm a fan. Unlike a puffy, there actually is some chance of breathability if you sweat too much and need to open your pit vents.

Fleece is very breathable. I had a 300 fleece TNF Denali jacket which was very thick untill washed a few times. The pit-zips were useful for nordic. I never liked the stiff collar, actually hated it when zipped up and gave it to a niece. Also had a TNF Radiant high loft fleece jacket, great fabric, again terrible collar, returned that one after one use as a mid-layer.
I don't even know how many "around the town" fleeces I have around the house but am fairly sure I've enough to rival @SkiNurse's collection

I'm incredibly picky and back during the 20+ years when I couldn't ski due to multiple injuries and such, I went at least 15 years without buying a winter jacket because I hated everything I tried on and pretty much wore nothing but fleece. I have a great doubble bonded fleece pullover hoodie only it fits big for under a shell and the hood doesnt fit under or over a helmet.

A girlfriend who I'd pick up from Philly's 30th street station after her three day work week in NYC and I would do a late night walk on Philly's Schuylkill Rive Trail by the Art Muesuen before the drive back to her main line "gingerbread" house. One such frigid night I knew she'd freeze in her dress clothing and bought a pair of my 300 weight fleece pants and hoody. She loved it, couldn't have been happier. Said she felt like a stuffed animal in the outfit! No complaints what so ever about the below-freezing temps

Apologies for the thread drift.

 

[Slim]

Would a windshirt under the jacket help (the pertex BD synthetic puffy mentioned above or a Marmot Driclime windshirt)?
Thank you.

Putting a non breathable wind shirt under a jacket will negate the ability to absorb/wick and transport sweat. Which gets you back to having too much moisture build up leaving you cold when you are standing or sitting on the lift. A 3 layer outer shell of gore-Tex pro ,eVent or neoshelll will allow this transfer to occur This is why I like to layer beneath a shell. To some degree I prefer a 3 layer gore-Tex shell for Uber cold days since it doesn’t breath as well (but still well-enough.

But the garments @palikona mentions, are breathable. They are just not as breathable as the Alpha etc stuff. However, the problem was in high wind, where the Neoshell is to air permeable, letting cold air through in high wind, very cold conditions. Together, the Neoshell and calendered shell fabric of the insulation layer will probably breathe and block wind as well as traditional GTX, fine for such high wind conditions. If it’s more cold than extreme wind I would keep the Neoshell shell jacket and add some extra (highly breathable) insulation to cope for the increased heat loss due to convection.

 

[Monique]

This just in: the great thing about layers is that you can mix them up as appropriate.

It's pretty common in backcountry scenarios for people to wear a puffy over their shell. You quickly figure out that you don't want all that insulation when you're moving, but you want it the moment you stop. Taking off the shell itself is brutally cold. So. Puffy on the outside. Looks weird, feels weird, works best.

 

[palikona]

But the garments @palikona mentions, are breathable. They are just not as breathable as the Alpha etc stuff. However, the problem was in high wind, where the Neoshell is to air permeable, letting cold air through in high wind, very cold conditions. Together, the Neoshell and calendered shell fabric of the insulation layer will probably breathe and block wind as well as traditional GTX, fine for such high wind conditions. If it’s more cold than extreme wind I would keep the Neoshell shell jacket and add some extra (highly breathable) insulation to cope for the increased heat loss due to convection.

Like a Nano Air?

 

[Slim]

Like a Nano Air?

Yes Nano-Air, or similar offerings from other brands (like ones using Polartec Alpha and highly breathable face fabrics). Fleece as second choice, traditional high loft garments are least breathable.


BTW, I like to use my Nano-Air as a outer jacket when its fairly mild, with little wind. The idea being that it insulates fairly well, breathes really well, so if you do sweat, it will move that moisture quickly. It’s not very windproof, so at skiing speed, you lose a lot of warmth, just like you want, but on the lift it stops just enough wind to keep the insution working.

 

[TonyPlush]

I got this at REI for $200 but haven't worn it yet. It's got 65g in the sleeves so the torso part must be pretty warm. I usually use a shell but figured I try something different. https://www.hellyhansen.com/en_it/pete-jacket-62626

Stowe in March was the coldest day of the year for me -10 with 40 mph wind. I bought a bunch of wool/spandex duofold shirts on sale about 15 years ago. With a shell and midlayer you can pretty much add as many duofolds as you need.

Have you gotten a chance to take this out yet?

I ask because I just bought a Helly Hansen myself. Picked up the Alpha 3.0 for $280; supposedly it carries 80g in the sleeves and 100g in the torso. Trying to figure out just how warm that will be, and what sort of mid-layer game I need to be looking at.

The jacket's main use will be 10-30 degree F days in the Colorado mountains. But I also live in Minnesota, so I'd like it to survive those occasional -10 degree ski days.

 

[Slim]

Have you gotten a chance to take this out yet?

I ask because I just bought a Helly Hansen myself. Picked up the Alpha 3.0 for $280; supposedly it carries 80g in the sleeves and 100g in the torso. Trying to figure out just how warm that will be, and what sort of mid-layer game I need to be looking at.

The jacket's main use will be 10-30 degree F days in the Colorado mountains. But I also live in Minnesota, so I'd like it to survive those occasional -10 degree ski days.

I try to avoid DH skiing at -10 F, especially in MN. Fun/suffer ratio is bad. Go XC skiing.

How much insulation one needs is very variable.

• Different people feel the cold differently.
• Activity level is more important than temperature (skiing with a slower partner vs pounding moguls)
• Wind speed, humidity and sunshine also affect perceived temps

In Lutsen last weekend, at around 5-10F above zero, I wore about 100g insulation combined with a thin and a thick baselayer and a fuzzy shell. I would guess that for most people, 100g in the torso makes it a true cold weather jacket, and I would bring something else for days above freezing.

Below freezing you can adjust your layers to be comfortable in any temps with that jacket. Start with a thin baselayer unless its frigid and add a layer if needed.