Inside leg

[Codger]

In discussing experiences of recent Taos ski seekers they emphasized use of new inside leg. Can anyone describe what that means? Is it current outside ankle rolling over to initiate turn and become new inside leg?

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

In discussing experiences of recent Taos ski seekers they emphasized use of new inside leg. Can anyone describe what that means? Is it current outside ankle rolling over to initiate turn and become new inside leg?

Yes

 

[Bendu]

active flexing(shorterning), lightning, and tipping of the new inside leg are all things that a great skier has to do to make clean transition.

 

[Dave Marshak]

active flexing(shorterning), lightning, and tipping of the new inside leg are all things that a great skier has to do to make clean transition.

What @Bendu said.
Inside leg is nothing new, and it's not THE NEW WAY TO SKI. Using drills to focus on the inside leg is just a way to teach some important skills. What you should be looking for is a clean transition and early edge engagement with the new outside ski. Ideally you want to get to where you don't think about that stuff, you just do it intuitively.
FWIW I tried some inside ski exercises with a student last week and it totally misfired because her skills weren't developed enough for it. My bad. You never know how a person will react to specific directions.

dm

 

[Kneale Brownson]

I start inside leg involvement with the introduction of turning from a wedge.

 

[dbostedo]

Since Taos was mentioned, I'll also add that they teach a more actively weighted inside ski than I've seen other places. (I.e. some teaching I've had is basically to have nearly 100% of your weight on the outside ski... whereas lessons at Taos may ask for more weight inside, to use the little toe edge of the inside ski more actively.)

But yes, flattening them tipping the inside ski to start a turn is taught; Ideally it's tipping both skis simultaneously, but the inside ski going first can familiarize/ingrain folks with the movement.

Lastly, I'll add that my Taos instructor always referred to the uphill and downhill ski, which was somewhat confusing to me as then you have to consider which part of the turn you're in.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

My instructor also used uphill/downhill but switched to inside/outside when @Weegie McAdams asked a specific question about the inside ski. After that, he stayed with inside/outside terminology

 

[Marker]

Since Taos was mentioned, I'll also add that they teach a more actively weighted inside ski than I've seen other places. (I.e. some teaching I've had is basically to have nearly 100% of your weight on the outside ski... whereas lessons at Taos may ask for more weight inside, to use the little toe edge of the inside ski more actively.)

But yes, flattening them tipping the inside ski to start a turn is taught; Ideally it's tipping both skis simultaneously, but the inside ski going first can familiarize/ingrain folks with the movement.

Lastly, I'll add that my Taos instructor always referred to the uphill and downhill ski, which was somewhat confusing to me as then you have to consider which part of the turn you're in.

So I had started doing this "Taos" method without visiting Taos, not sure where it came from to be honest, but my last few lessons wanted me to weight the outside ski more as I shorten the inside leg. I feel the latter really made my groomer skiing more explosive and controlled, but I still revert to this "Taos" approach when I get in ungroomed terrain. I guess this is good, more skills and tools to work with.

 

[Bendu]

I start inside leg involvement with the introduction of turning from a wedge.

can you explain how?


I see a wedge turn more as teaching internal rotation of the outside leg, which leads to upper lower body separation as well as balance being directed toward outside ski. Necessary IMO yes, has to do alot with the inside ski, umm no really. It has very little inside leg tipping or flexxing even though there is some. In fact if your in a wedge and you start tipping the inside foot it will usually match assuming nothing is really wrong the skiers alignment.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

In fact if your in a wedge and you start tipping the inside foot it will usually match assuming nothing is really wrong the skiers alignment.

You are right about this, and that's why I agree with Kneale that the wedge turn is a great time and place to introduce the inside ski. It can be a powerful tool to help more "advanced" skiers find inside ski tipping for the first time.

 

[JESinstr]

can you explain how?


I see a wedge turn more as teaching internal rotation of the outside leg, which leads to upper lower body separation as well as balance being directed toward outside ski. Necessary IMO yes, has to do alot with the inside ski, umm no really. It has very little inside leg tipping or flexxing even though there is some. In fact if your in a wedge and you start tipping the inside foot it will usually match assuming nothing is really wrong the skiers alignment.

With the advent of the modern shaped ski, The wedge formation places you on the shaped surface (edge) of the ski and "pre-loads " initial ski redirection. Now all you have to do is teach the student to balance through the center of the foot (ergo center of ski shape) vs the natural propensity to balance through the heels and suddenly you have 2 skis carving into each other creating pressure where each ski cancels out the other.

So one can conclude that if you focus on releasing the pressure from the new inside ski through softening leading to shortening that balance will move laterally to the outside ski where increased pressure will add to the bending of the ski and result in the ski turning the student vs the student turning the ski. Rotary will find its way into the equation no doubt but there is no need to teach it.

In addition we are teaching movement patterns and concepts that span the beginner to the expert.

For many years we taught rotary first but I do believe that the new ski technology and design has allowed us to rethink the need to do this.

IMO

 

[Kneale Brownson]

can you explain how?

Let me preface my turn instruction details by pointing out that I start all beginner lessons with some boot work that includes walking around changing directions while noting that every change involves moving the inside foot first. Same notation when we do star turns with skis on. And, finally, there's considerable time spent in sidestepping kinds of moves with a focus on feeling the arch of the downhill foot inside the boot.

So, after we've sidestepped up and done straight run and gliding wedge exercises on a short, shallow space, we climb once more and talk about wedge turning being accomplished by flattening the ski that will become inside, thereby reducing its edge bite in the snow and allowing the other edged ski to get the turniing going. I emphasize a gentle rolling of the inside foot inside the boot and patience and that thinking about reducing the pressure on the inside arch can assist.

 

[James]

“Left tip left to turn left. “
Doesn’t get much simpler. Certainly not new.

I’m a little surprised that Taos default terms are “uphill/downhill”. That sort of went away in the 2,000’s.

 

[mdf]

You are right about this, and that's why I agree with Kneale that the wedge turn is a great time and place to introduce the inside ski. It can be a powerful tool to help more "advanced" skiers find inside ski tipping for the first time.

My class at Taos started each day with wedge turns, thento stem christies to open parallel, finishing with railroad tracks, in a sort of "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" progression. (I threw in some pivot slips too, just for the heck of it.) I'm not completely convinced of the value, but I am a lot better at wedge turns now.

 

[Coach13]

I think it was Bob Barnes who used to say that a properly performed wedge turn has all the same characteristics as a properly performed parallel turn.

 

[dbostedo]

I’m a little surprised that Taos default terms are “uphill/downhill”. That sort of went away in the 2,000’s.

I couldn't say that those are Taos default terms... just my particular instructor. And in her defense, we were referring mainly (though not entirely) to uphill/downhill at transition, when you're facing more across the hill.

 

[James]

My class at Taos started each day with wedge turns, thento stem christies to open parallel, finishing with railroad tracks, in a sort of "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" progression. (I threw in some pivot slips too, just for the heck of it.) I'm not completely convinced of the value, but I am a lot better at wedge turns now.

How were you doing the stems? Slide or step outside foot?
Stems are pretty useful in trees and bumps.
Your sentence needs footnotes. Three dictionary words in a four word sentence!

 

[mdf]

Slide or step outside foot?

Slide, but we didn't really talk about it. He focused on the first and last steps in the progression.
I meant the value of doing the progression everyday, not the value of the individual moves.

 

[James]

A stem christie hasn't been part of the "progression" in this century.
Wedge christie- where the inside ski is steered, "matching". tips open up, feet stay about same width. As opposed to "closing" where the tails close, feet cone closer together.

 

[mdf]

As I said, we didn't talk about the middle stages, so maybe I got it wrong.