Mid-Atlantic Inside intel says Camelback PA is being purchased by KSL

[Wasatchman]

Thanks... some time ago earlier in this thread we (well, me at least) were looking for info on the ties between the KSL's and it was sparse. That seems like a new page since then.

Still - I'd like to know more about the relationship between KSL Resorts and KSL Capital Partners. It seems that KSL Resorts bought Camelback, but KSL Capital Partners is an investor/backer? I'm not sure how that works. Do we know that KSL Capital Partners owns KSL Resorts? Or are they incorporated/setup separately and just have ties?

The way it works is KSL Capital Partners, or more simply just called KSL, is an investment company. They buy things (companies) and typically they eventually sell those investments at a profit and distribute those profits to their investors. They set up various entities and those entities are not necessarily mingled but can remain separate entities. So for example they could decide to buy The Four Seasons hotel group and keep that entity separate from Wyndham Hotels which they already own. There are all types of reasons they may want to keep the entities separate. Or they may choose to combine Four Seasons into the same entity as Wyndham.

KSL Capital Partners does own KSL Resorts. Think of KSL Resorts as a division of KSL. It hets complicated because KSL Resorts refers to a collection of resorts even though the individual resorts may not necessarily be comingled and may be run as separate legal entities and have different management. KSL bought Camelback and have it more as a resort property within their portfolio of investments. I am not sure if they comingled it with any other resorts they own or have kept it as its own separate entity, but it is not part of Alterra.

KSL also does own Alterra, although in this case they own 75 percent of Alterra. The Crown family owns the other 25 percent of the Alterra company.

Edit: it gets confusing and I tried to explain it early in this thread. I gave up trying to get into it but hopefully this makes it a bit more clear.

 

[Jane Jones]

Agreed. Why the secrecy? Why so complex?

 

[Wasatchman]

Agreed. Why the secrecy? Why so complex?

Well, I am not sure about the secrecy if any does exist. The complexity is a whole other topic. But one example is these entities are financed with debt. And the debt holders can be different. So for example, you finance Wyndham with debt. Let's say Wyndham goes bankrupt. Because they are different legal entities, Wyndham could go bankrupt and not affect Camelback at all. That's the simplest example. But there are others.

 

[Jane Jones]

Most big transactions of this type have debt from many different sources. But that does not stop companies and the news from disclosing who the owner(s) are. Nor does it stop total disclosure on when the business changes hands, for how much, etc. There is something else going on here. Even KSL has disclosed this information for other sites they have purchased.

 

[Wasatchman]

Most big transactions of this type have debt from many different sources. But that does not stop companies and the news from disclosing who the owner(s) are. Nor does it stop total disclosure on when the business changes hands, for how much, etc. There is something else going on here. Even KSL has disclosed this information for other sites they have purchased.

Yeah, sounds like you are part of the community there and know it much better than I do. I am at a loss as to why KSL would be so secretive about Camelback. Keep us posted if you hear anything interesting.

 

[Philpug]

I still come back to....Why no official announcement?

 

[Jane Jones]

It doesn’t really matter, but still a quandry.

 

[4aprice]

Nope. Live in the area. Everyone knew but no news covered it. It was a secret. Didn’t come out until KSL applied for the liquor license.

JJ I have been and pass holder for 15 years so I've been up there plenty and know some people affiliated with the skiing operation. I'm not sure KSL owns it. They manage and run it for sure and I'm sure have their name on the liquor license but I believe I heard last season that there is still some other ownership involved.(maybe with the water park operations) I also understand that 2 of the restaurants at the resort were not included in the deal (assume the one at the top and the old Glen Lodge).

Haven't seen or heard anything this summer (just starting to see some Aquatopia ads here in the NY metro) but I'm assuming all lift demolition and replacement and other projects are off. Hopefully we get another season of the Thirsty Camel. .

 

[4aprice]

My last day of the season last year. 03/08/2020. Good times on Uncle Bills and Marjies

 

[Philpug]

View attachment 106070

View attachment 106071

My last day of the season last year. 03/08/2020. Good times on Uncle Bills and Marjies

I kow Marjies, where is Uncle Bills?

 

[Sibhusky]

I kow Marjies, where is Uncle Bills?

I had the same reaction.

 

[Philpug]

I kow Marjies, where is Uncle Bills?

I had the same reaction.

...and who is Bill and who's uncle was he?

 

[PowderMaker]

Uncle Bill's Way Trail Dedication
February 1, 2014 · Tannersville, PA

Today we dedicated the old Dromedary trail to be named "Uncle Bill's Way" in honor of Bill Ballek, who served Camelback as a Ski Patroler for over 50 years! Camelback would like to thank not only Bill, but his family and all the other Ski Patroler's who made this day special!

 

[Philpug]

Uncle Bill's Way Trail Dedication
February 1, 2014 · Tannersville, PA

Today we dedicated the old Dromedary trail to be named "Uncle Bill's Way" in honor of Bill Ballek, who served Camelback as a Ski Patroler for over 50 years! Camelback would like to thank not only Bill, but his family and all the other Ski Patroler's who made this day special!

I think I remember that trail. I am sure Bill stopped me or yelled at me for skiing to fast at some point. Personally, I only recall the name of one patroller at Camelback and that was Tim Fortner who had patrolled at Timber Hill prior.

 

[Lift Blog]

Not much coverage but Camelback is getting a new lift this year. A Doppelmayr quad replacing Sunbowl I and II. Maybe it's good KSL did not put CB under Alterra as all those lifts were cancelled.

 

[Jane Jones]

SO, who bought Camelback in Tannersville PA? Are there new owners?

 

[Lift Blog]

SO, who bought Camelback in Tannersville PA? Are there new owners?

Resort Property Management | Hotel & Resort Consulting Firm

From hotel management, golf & spa, and retail services, the proficiencies of the KSL Resorts team are both broad & deep. For the past two decades we've honed our expertise as successful owners, operators, and asset-managers.

kslresorts.com

 

[Jane Jones]

Resort Property Management | Hotel & Resort Consulting Firm

From hotel management, golf & spa, and retail services, the proficiencies of the KSL Resorts team are both broad & deep. For the past two decades we've honed our expertise as successful owners, operators, and asset-managers.

kslresorts.com

This says that KSL is managing Camelback. Maybe I’m missing something. But it does not say that KSL owns Camelback. Thoughts?

 

[4aprice]

This says that KSL is managing Camelback. Maybe I’m missing something. But it does not say that KSL owns Camelback. Thoughts?

That was my understanding last year. KSL is managing, but someone else owns the ski area. The mountain is owned by the state of Pennsylvania being Big Pocono State Park with Camelback having rights to expand if they wish.

BTW watched a little bit of the web cam at work. Was very busy for an opening day with what looked like a significant line on Sullivan quad and no Bailey running.

 

[Jane Jones]

Awesome that opening day went well. The dump of snow was a blessing. I am confused about the sale. SO you are saying KSL is only managing the park BUT someone else owns it? I wonder who owns it?