Professional Golf Injuries take a toll on Tiger

[Started at 53]

@Fishbowl

I am a friend of Nick’s, I know a lot of what was going on.

I’ll leave this topic alone now.

 

[Philpug]

There are those who know and those who think they know...Knowing what I know and knowing what @Started at 53 knows...I will err to his authority. Kinda like deferring to @Muleski when it comes to ski racing and the people around that.

 

[Eleeski]

Athletes hiding behind a Dr's prescription pad is not a valid excuse for using medications that are known to enhance performance.

Yes, he had high blood pressure,

I can't disagree more with your thinking. If a medicine is appropriate for normal people (my dad got several years past his "expiration date" due to excellent medical care - including drugs and beta blockers) it should be OK for athletes.

The entire reason and justification for banning PEDs is to protect the health of the athletes. The "level playing field" is something else. How it gained relevance is frightening.

I'm an aging athlete subject to WADA testing. WTF, I'm old and decrepit. No amount of drugs will make me 18 again. But when I got shingles (get the vaccine, it's a horrible disease) the normal course of prednesone was unavailable to me because of my desire to compete. Maybe I just had a bad case. maybe I didn't get the right treatment or maybe I was just unlucky but my injured hip filled with calcium and had to get replaced. I did get a TUE for the prednesone shot in my hip before senior worlds - does that make me a cheater? And why is my $60,000 hip OK? I know some competitors who use PEDs except they are performance enabling drugs at our age. If I perform well, I can still beat them. It's good to have them still competing with me.

An 18 year old should not take testosterone for a competitive advantage. Really bad for long term health. A stretch but testicular cancer? A 70 year old taking testosterone, gets some quality of life. Gets cancer in 30 years?

The witch-hunt over PEDs has gone off the rails. Keep the athletes healthy above all. Please.

Eric

 

[crgildart]

I don't think anyone is saying that old people or less than 100% healthy people can't seek chemical help for their ailments. What is being said is that they can't use those chemicals while competing against others who aren't allowed to also use those chemicals. If you're not 100% healthy and require medical intervention, perhaps you shouldn't be competing at that level until you are 100% healthy or retire..

Full disclosure, I'd also be OK with an anything goes with regard to PEDs at the adult professional level as long as those enhancements aren't proven to be more deadly than tobacco and alcohol are.. I think that pretty much everything recreational should be legal and we should treat addiction disease rather than trying to regulate social freedom. Driving under the influence and public intoxication should still be totally illegal but what you do at home isn't any of my business until we're all paying for your ER OD visits and car wreck carnage. At that point folks need to be put in treatment, possibly in handcuffs. If you're just a casual user of pretty much anything I have no problem with that..

All or nothing seems to be where I fall here..

 

[Fishbowl]

There are those who know and those who think they know...Knowing what I know and knowing what @Started at 53 knows...I will err to his authority. Kinda like deferring to @Muleski when it comes to ski racing and the people around that.

To be fair 53 was coming on pretty hard earlier in this thread casting aspersions about Tiger using PEDs and the PGA covering it up. Price’s name still comes up twenty five years later as an athlete who took advantage of percrition meds to gain an unfair advantage over his competitors. Given the recent history of athletes letting their fans down by using PEDs and then blatantly lying about it, it’s not surprising that suspicion runs high. I don’t personally know what Price, Tiger, or any athlete has, or hasn’t taken.

 

[Eleeski]

If you are a pro golfer, you can't use the widespread, safe and most effective treatment? WTF? Kill the athletes? PEDs are restricted to protect athletes' health. The playing field has to be so level that an athlete's livelihood is taken away - or their health is damaged?

As someone with a family history of arthritis and early onset of symptoms, I am never 100%. The naproxen that I take has allowed me to compete over the decades. It used to be a prescription drug. Absolutely a performance enhancing drug for me. Was I cheating?

I'm healthier than my father at this age so either the drug or the continuing involvement in athletics has helped my health.

We don't want our athletes dying on the road, getting weird cancers or women growing beards. That has been reasonably controlled with testing. I'm not sure it's good to have someone go anemic on Mount Ventoux after a couple weeks of bike racing. I don't approve of a golfer having a stroke or heart attack so he can play "clean". And the idea that I have to quit competing (while I'm still competitive) because I'm old and arthritic is horrible.

Fancy equipment, extensive (and expensive) training programs, legal medical procedures (including legal drugs) and a host of other factors assures that the playing field is nowhere near level. The focus on PEDs is overblown. But here we are on a thread about golfing (a sport for old guys!) discussing "suspicions" of PED use. And too many otherwise fun discussions about exceptional athletic performances and performers gets derailed by such whispers.

Sorry about the rant.

I wish Tiger the best. He has a lot of work to do to reinvent his game to adapt to an aging and injured body. His path in that direction will be interesting and useful for us as we age.

Eric

 

[Started at 53]

To be fair 53 was coming on pretty hard earlier in this thread casting aspersions about Tiger using PEDs and the PGA covering it up. Price’s name still comes up twenty five years later as an athlete who took advantage of percrition meds to gain an unfair advantage over his competitors. Given the recent history of athletes letting their fans down by using PEDs and then blatantly lying about it, it’s not surprising that suspicion runs high. I don’t personally know what Price, Tiger, or any athlete has, or hasn’t taken.

@Fishbowl

Tiger and Nick are apples and oranges. Let me explain, I know for a fact that Nick would have stopped taking the medication if doing so would not have had a detrimental affect on his health. Not was absolutely not taking anything to improve his performance.

I have zero evidence or supposition that Tiger was taking Beta Blockers. I personally do not think they would have been a performance benefit to his personality. I do not think Tiger was taking anything to help him cope with the pressures of tournament golf.

 

[Fishbowl]

If you are a pro golfer, you can't use the widespread, safe and most effective treatment? WTF? Kill the athletes? PEDs are restricted to protect athletes' health. The playing field has to be so level that an athlete's livelihood is taken away - or their health is damaged?

As someone with a family history of arthritis and early onset of symptoms, I am never 100%. The naproxen that I take has allowed me to compete over the decades. It used to be a prescription drug. Absolutely a performance enhancing drug for me. Was I cheating?

I'm healthier than my father at this age so either the drug or the continuing involvement in athletics has helped my health.

We don't want our athletes dying on the road, getting weird cancers or women growing beards. That has been reasonably controlled with testing. I'm not sure it's good to have someone go anemic on Mount Ventoux after a couple weeks of bike racing. I don't approve of a golfer having a stroke or heart attack so he can play "clean". And the idea that I have to quit competing (while I'm still competitive) because I'm old and arthritic is horrible.

Fancy equipment, extensive (and expensive) training programs, legal medical procedures (including legal drugs) and a host of other factors assures that the playing field is nowhere near level. The focus on PEDs is overblown. But here we are on a thread about golfing (a sport for old guys!) discussing "suspicions" of PED use. And too many otherwise fun discussions about exceptional athletic performances and performers gets derailed by such whispers.

Sorry about the rant.

I wish Tiger the best. He has a lot of work to do to reinvent his game to adapt to an aging and injured body. His path in that direction will be interesting and useful for us as we age.

Eric

If you choose to compete in a particular sport that is regulated, then yes, you have to abide by their rules. I’m not sure if it’s fair to blame the regulating body if you choose to risk your own health by withholding your medications to compete.

 

[Eleeski]

If you choose to compete in a particular sport that is regulated, then yes, you have to abide by their rules. I’m not sure if it’s fair to blame the regulating body if you choose to risk your own health by withholding your medications to compete.

WADA rules are the standard for any sport. The list of proscribed drugs is very restrictive. Public attitudes make them applied even more restrictively (limiting TUEs). In our society with ADA and universal acceptance, I'm not sure that many of the WADA rules could stand up to a legal challenge if a valid TUE is denied. Except it's sport. Nevermind that people make a living off being athletes, an individual's health and career is less important than some imaginary "level playing field". In the golfer's case, beta blockers are a normal medically indicated treatment that is widely granted TUE usage and you are forcing him to give up his passion and livlihood?

Cyclists get a lung condition that is effectively treated with prednesone (a steroidal anti inflammatory which is quite different from the traditional testostrone type steroid). It's a very common ailment and treatment. By outlawing prednesone TUEs (which is being discussed by cycling), we will have a diminished and less healthy peloton. Individuals will ride without treatment (and possibly damage themselves) or forgo their chance at a livelihood. I don't think that's right.

Restricting the pool of athletes to only very young, uninjured and not ill participants diminishes the sport and is unfair to the aging athlete. Anit doping rules need to be in place and enforced. Therapeutic Use Exemptions need to also be available. It should be about the long term health of the athletes foremost.

Eric

 

[crgildart]

It should be about the long term health of the athletes foremost.

Eric

It should be but when doctor's opinions as to what is "required" is obviously for sale when it comes to drugs which could also give an unfair advantage all bets are off. That's why I lean towards just letting adults do whatever they want.. It really has to be all or nothing for everyone or else doctors will continue to be paid to help athletes cheat.

 

[Eleeski]

When I'm at the doctor, I get a big scowl when I mention WADA limits on my drug options. "Required"? WTF, the game is to keep me in compliance and get somewhere near normal treatments. Getting back to health and competition is not cheating!

I'm already old so I've made it to the "long term health" part. The 35 year old kids aren't the problem, it's the guy who is a year older who kicks me!

I'm not ready to take up golf yet. Tiger is safe for a while.

Eric

 

[scott43]

Back on target..Tiger looked pretty respectable this weekend in the Bahamas and I have to say, he looked different than in his last attempts at a "comeback". Not great..not the old Tiger..but he looked steady and pretty competent. I read they basically removed his Lumbar/Sciatic disk and fused the vertebrae and he is apparently pain-free, although I imagine somewhat less flexible. Anyway..I'm surprised a little..and have to say I can't write him off at this point..

 

[Jim Kenney]

I guess Tiger's lucky to be alive after this latest auto crash. I wish him the best. This article implies that his days as a top competitor are very likely over:-(

Column: Tiger Woods survives but his career might not - WTOP News

The sheared-off front of the wrecked SUV told part of the story, and the officers on the scene filled in the rest. Tiger Woods was lucky to be alive, they said, thanks to modern safety technology and…

wtop.com

 

[Tricia]

We've been following this story since yesterday. Sincerly bummed about this.

 

[scott43]

I wouldn't write off Tiger.. if anyone can win again... However, time is creeping on him...

 

[Jwrags]

Given the extent of his injuries he will have difficulty walking a course for a long time.

 

[Jim Kenney]

I believe they let them use carts on the seniors/Champions tour. Tiger's only five years from qualifying for that.

 

[scott43]

Given the extent of his injuries he will have difficulty walking a course for a long time.

You figure a year? Maybe more? It sounded...not good. Marc Marquez in MotoGP had a fairly severe arm injury and ended up with a horrific outcome to date. He tried to resume racing early, the bone didn't heal, infection set in at the fracture site, compartment syndrome complicated things..at one point his arm was literally rotting from the inside.. They finally had to do ANOTHER surgery to go in and clean out the infection from the fracture area and reset the entire healing process...9 months later.. So hopefully Tiger avoids these complications..but I could easily see this stretching out to multiple years.

And the body just breaks down after 38 man..

 

[dbostedo]

...but I could easily see this stretching out to multiple years...

That's what I was thinking. One report mentioned "multiple open fractures" meaning multiple bones or pieces were sticking out of his skin. And it sounds like there are rods/screws in multiple places needed.

 

[locknload]

Its not looking good for him. His knees are already a mess and you generate torque and club speed with your lower half. Even if he recovers from these injuries, his ability to walk the course for 4 days in a row during a tournament and generate the power he needs to compete seems unlikely. His athletic achievements are the stuff of legend, but even this may be more than he can overcome. I hope he gets healthy and can focus on whatever will make him happy in life..b/c he really never does seem happy (at least looking from the outside).