In the gym

[Monique]

Ah, my old nemesis.

Funny how that works

 

[Monique]

I'm starting my month of hypertrophy. I knew it would be painful, but omg. Warmups for each exercise, then two sets of 12-15 reps at 5s up / 5s down, with only one minute of rest between the sets. Two days a week, with different exercises for each day. The goal is muscle failure, not the generous "Only increase the weight if you've finished 10 and would have had room for 2 more" plan I've been doing. It's really hard choose to keep going through the agony (or what my coach calls "discomfort"!), not speed up the exercise, and not quit until my muscles literally can't move the weight anymore. Spotter arms are my new best friends. I don't think I've ever had to bail to them before - yesterday, it happened at least three times. If I were doing this with an online program, or with a trainer I didn't know well, I would be questioning all sorts of things. With my trainer directly determining a program specifically for me - I'm fully committed.

In addition to building larger muscles, this phase will help set me up for good form (i.e., injury prevention) when I tackle my strength phase in two months. My goals are safety, strength, and visible muscles, in that order.

But FAR more importantly than my strength and general swoleness, my function is improving so much. My thoracic spine is still too tight, so it's hard to extend my upper back the way I should. But I've been working so hard at it, and seeing massive improvements in my squat form and general ability to lengthen/straighten my upper back. It was a little over a month ago when my trainer finally brought two-leg squats back into my program, in the form of front squats. Before that, my knees and shoulders and posture were just not ready for it. I struggled to keep my torso more upright with front squats, but it's still easier than with back squats, and I made slow but obvious progress. Two weeks ago, he introduced overhead squats, which also challenged my posture, as well as my shoulders. And now - and now! - my programming includes back squats. And my form is a million times better. My upper body is so much more vertical, and my butt is legit grazing a 12" platform without my hips doing weird things to make it happen. It takes an enormous amount of concentration and attention, but I can do it!

 

[Mendieta]

^ Ay my friend. You put me to shame. I'm hitting the gym today after work with Jr. 20 minutes of random stuff that comes to mind while I'm there. Maybe legs?

And that will very likely my only workout this week. Maybe another one in the weekend. I suck! Keep it going though, @Monique - peer pressure can only help me

 

[Monique]

^ Ay my friend. You put me to shame. I'm hitting the gym today after work with Jr. 20 minutes of random stuff that comes to mind while I'm there. Maybe legs?

And that will very likely my only workout this week. Maybe another one in the weekend. I suck! Keep it going though, @Monique - peer pressure can only help me

Yes, but I literally haven't skied in a month. I've prioritized lifting over skiing - my trainer said that of course I can ski if I want to, but I won't get the recovery time I need for optimum results. I don't think you're in the mood to commit to the gym that way ...

That being said, I have a badass core these days, and I definitely recommend core work if you're going to spend twenty minutes a couple of times this week. It makes skiing SO much easier. Like, multiple lessons worth of easier. Maybe multiple seasons.

The two exercises that got me there were: decline sit ups and what my coach calls "hammers," but which the internet calls a landmine twist. My gym has a Rogue bench that allows you to do decline sit ups at a pretty steep angle - I worked my way from 35*ish (pretty typical for a decline bench) to 55*ish, and am now adding weight. But twists - twists are magic.

And it's really amazing to me, because my core has historically been incredibly weak. For years, I would have to give up when there was much core work in yoga, while everyone else seemed fine. Sit ups were sooo hard. Bosu crunches? OMG. Now, those crunches are cake - I really have to work to get them to be challenging. So this is a huge change.

 

[Seldomski]

@Monique are you planning on skiing again this season? Many of the more dynamic lifts, like overhead squats, do a lot to work all the small bits in your feet/legs used for fine balance. At least that's what I noticed when skiing after doing crossfit a few months (which does a lot of barbell work).

 

[Monique]

@Monique are you planning on skiing again this season? Many of the more dynamic lifts, like overhead squats, do a lot to work all the small bits in your feet/legs used for fine balance. At least that's what I noticed when skiing after doing crossfit a few months (which does a lot of barbell work).

I haven't been super motivated to ski this season, so I don't really know. What a weird thing to say/type, but it's true. Maybe I should rename myself SeldomSki2 ;-)

I don't know if I'll be doing more overhead squats while it's still ski season. Certainly not for the next month, because it's not one of my ten assigned exercises. But I'm 100% sure you're right that it helps. I also suspect that they build core ... which like I said, is amazeballs for skiing, especially in 3D snow.

I'm under the impression that Crossfit uses a lot of Olympic style lifting - is that what you mean by barbell work? My trainer is leery of having me do Oly stuff, just because my shoulders have been such a mess - historically, any attempt at Oly has irritated them. He said that if he were to introduce Oly, it would be after at least two full cycles of my current program - so at least six months out. But he's not even sure if he'd do it then.

 

[Seldomski]

I'm under the impression that Crossfit uses a lot of Olympic style lifting - is that what you mean by barbell work?

Yes but honestly not sure what the true definition of Olympic style lifting is. I bet a true 'Olympic lifter' would snort at crossfit style lifts!
Overhead squat, snatch, clean, front squat, back squat, deadlift, overhead press, jerk are all often used in workouts. I think just snatch and clean+jerk are considered olympic.

Clean is sort of a combo of deadlift + front squat.
Snatch is combo of wide grip deadlift + overhead squat. (edited, not sumo deadlift)

Most do the workout with technical flaws. As long as the weight is kept low, this can be OK. Often the weight is low enough to do what they call a 'power' clean or 'power' snatch. This omits catching the bar in a squat and is much less dynamic.
Of course the devil is in the details of getting from the end of one lift into the other. That's where mobility (shoulder, hips) becomes very important. What you are doing now seems to be a gateway to olympic lifting ... if you wanted to go that way.

Biggest issue with doing Olympic lifts in a 'normal' gym is the bailout. You can't really have a spotter for these, so when you screw up, you need to drop the bar. Most gyms don't want you to drop stuff. Crossfit has rubber on the plates and floors to absorb impact.

 

[Monique]

Yes but honestly not sure what the true definition of Olympic style lifting is.

It's just a google search away ;-)

The two Olympic lifts are 1. snatch 2. clean and jerk
The three power lifting lifts are 1. bench press 2. (back) squats 3. deadlifts

Most do the workout with technical flaws. As long as the weight is kept low, this can be OK.

Oh, boy, this gives me feelings. Not good feelings. It does, however, give me the opportunity to quote something I just read. Obviously, I'm quoting it because it confirms my own perspective.

https://www.catalystathletics.com/article/34/Integrating-the-Olympic-Lifts-with-CrossFit/

Risk to an athlete is associated with poor technique and performance beyond his or her capabilities. Many in CrossFit will argue that if one’s technique during a workout is excellent, it’s an indication that he or she is simply not pushing hard enough—form breakdown is a necessary result of the level of intensity they’re encouraging.

The author goes on to argue that those "many" are wrong. I'm no expert, period, but I 100% believe in stopping if you can't do the exercise correctly. I just can't picture the scenario where using your body improperly is a good idea. Like all those people throwing their backs out picking up a child's toy. It doesn't require much weight to screw things up.

My trainer has pounded into me for over a decade that if your form breaks down, you stop. If you can't fully complete the movement, you stop. He says, not only does form breakdown risk injury - it also flat-out doesn't work, because at that point you're not using the muscles that the exercise is intended to develop. So, yeah, that's an appeal to authority, and it's not an authority you have reason to trust ... but I throw it out there for your consideration. The author of the above article also points out that allowing poor form builds muscle memory, meaning that it's very hard to undo the habit - even if you do switch to higher weights.

You can definitely develop intensity while maintaining good form - if your trainer can completely focus on your technique and harp on it until it's as natural as breathing. (Okay, even breathing doesn't exactly come naturally on heavy lifts, but you know what I mean.) A while ago, I posted about doing six sets of 15 reps of deadlifts. The power lifters I know think this is flat-out insane. I did them with good form, and I would fall over after the last set because I couldn't make my legs work to sit down.

(Is it the same form of intensity as going all-out in cardio? Well, no. But there are sooo many ways to develop cardio without using barbells!)

Biggest issue with doing Olympic lifts in a 'normal' gym is the bailout. You can't really have a spotter for these, so when you screw up, you need to drop the bar. Most gyms don't want you to drop stuff. Crossfit has rubber on the plates and floors to absorb impact.

Our weight room is unfortunately on the second floor of a building not designed for a weight room. We have platforms that cushion the falls. While we're asked not to just drop things for the fun of it, the platforms are there for a reason. The other day, my trainer asked some folks to do their kettlebell workouts on the platforms, and demonstrated why by flinging a cast iron kettlebell onto the platform. It bounced ... but wasn't too loud. And we have bumper plates so that deadlifts aren't TOO noisy. Then again, the lights in the locker rooms do sometimes flicker when someone drops a heavy bar ...


I know there are a lot of opinions here about Crossfit, and I don't really care about all that - but boy, do I think it's a bad idea to let form slide.

 

[Seldomski]

Agree with you @Monique , but there's many shades of gray here. I know I don't do the lifts exactly right. Should I stop working out? There is certainly a minimum threshold for form on a given lift - agree there. If you can't get that, there's no point in doing that lift. If your form degrades past a certain point, you need to stop. Then there's the grades above that. Like if you want to go very heavy on a particular lift, you really do need to be very technically accurate in the technique or you get injured. Most of the workouts in crossfit scale down from your theoretical max to something like 40%. Some even lower. Then you move this weight alot (50x in a 15 minute workout with other things sprinkled in).

I'm not saying crossfit is perfect - it is definitely flawed. But it has appeal and moving barbells is part of that for some. It gets more people exercising and that is a good thing. When scaled properly for your ability level, it's good stuff. When misapplied, it's bad. Pretty much how it works for most things in life. Say skiing... should someone stop if their form sucks? If they don't ski in control always? They could get injured! But if it gets them active, it can be a net good thing. Again, depends on how badly they suck . Maybe they should stop skiing.

 

[Seldomski]

Maybe I should rename myself SeldomSki2 ;-)

Someday I hope to petition @Philpug to upgrade my name to Oftenski.... but for now, I'm stuck just thinking about/posting about skiing, not actually skiing. C'est la vie.

 

[Monique]

Agree with you @Monique , but there's many shades of gray here. I know I don't do the lifts exactly right. Should I stop working out? There is certainly a minimum threshold for form on a given lift - agree there. If you can't get that, there's no point in doing that lift. If your form degrades past a certain point, you need to stop. Then there's the grades above that. Like if you want to go very heavy on a particular lift, you really do need to be very technically accurate in the technique or you get injured. Most of the workouts in crossfit scale down from your theoretical max to something like 40%. Some even lower. Then you move this weight alot (50x in a 15 minute workout with other things sprinkled in).

I'm not saying crossfit is perfect - it is definitely flawed. But it has appeal and moving barbells is part of that for some. It gets more people exercising and that is a good thing. When scaled properly for your ability level, it's good stuff. When misapplied, it's bad. Pretty much how it works for most things in life. Say skiing... should someone stop if their form sucks? If they don't ski in control always? They could get injured! But if it gets them active, it can be a net good thing. Again, depends on how back they suck . Maybe they should stop skiing.

You do have a point, in that even the best continue to work on technique, in any discipline, from lifting to writing to skiing to coding and painting ... technical perfection is not something you can ever achieve; it's just something you can approach.

I myself combine a relentlessly overthinking personality, a klutz of a body, and an assortment of old injuries that still crop up here and there. All of those, in addition to the good fortune of my income and flexible schedule, drive me to seek instruction. So it's easy for me to say, Yeah, but everyone should be getting individual instruction for this stuff! But ... I lucked into a trainer who is definitely far more competent than the average. That's got to be just as hard as finding highly competent people in any vocation.

And, of course, there are Youtube guides to everything. And there people out there who are happily training using remote / video based coaches. I belong to a power lifting group on Facebook where you can post videos of your form for feedback (yikes!).

So, yeah, you must be right that there's a line, and I don't know where that line is.

But ... then there's the view that "it's okay if your form breaks down a little." That implies that they're not seeking perfection; they're looking for "just good enough." Doesn't it? Maybe, if the quote (which isn't an actual quote - it's the author putting words into a third party's mouth) from the article is to be believed, they're even thinking that if they have good technique, they're not trying hard enough. And that is scary to me. And honestly, Crossfit has enough of an image problem that just from a PR standpoint, they should be aggressively shutting down that sort of talk. Not to mention liability ... do the trainers at the box ever say that form breakdown is fine?

 

[Dwight]

Home gym is getting updated. Which means it is actually getting used now.

Rubber flooring to happen soon too.

 

[Monique]

Home gym is getting updated. Which means it is actually getting used now.

Rubber flooring to happen soon too.

View attachment 67998 View attachment 67999

Niiiice.

 

[socalgal]

***UPDATE***

I can do a pull up!!! The past two weeks or so I made it to the skinniest band left at my gym, and felt like the end was in sight. I really wanted to be able to do one before my birthday at the end of the month. Today I was feeling strong, and... it just happened!

I have been working on this (granted not too passionately) since June of last year. Every time I transitioned to a smaller band, I grew encouraged at the tangible results.

A pullup! And then a few more but not consecutively and with rests. At the end of our climbing session, I was worried I "lost" it, but, I could still do one.

 

[Monique]

***UPDATE***

I can do a pull up!!! The past two weeks or so I made it to the skinniest band left at my gym, and felt like the end was in sight. I really wanted to be able to do one before my birthday at the end of the month. Today I was feeling strong, and... it just happened!

I have been working on this (granted not too passionately) since June of last year. Every time I transitioned to a smaller band, I grew encouraged at the tangible results.

A pullup! And then a few more but not consecutively and with rests. At the end of our climbing session, I was worried I "lost" it, but, I could still do one.

Congrats!!

 

[Monique]

1RM (one rep max) testing in two weeks. My first time ever. I'm nervous, which is silly, because the whole point is just to collect data and get a baseline. i.e., this is just a starting point. It isn't SUPPOSED to be impressive.

... but I want it to be a little bit impressive?

 

[Varmintmist]

I'll get over this. I felt weird about bench press, but not anymore (possibly because I've crossed some arbitrary threshold to where the amount of weight "counts" - which is of course ridiculous). At some point in my life, I felt weird about barbell squats, and deadlifts, and boy did good mornings feel conspicuous when I started doing them.

I probably don't need to worry about looking like a fool - at this point, there are a lot of gym regulars, including some guys who move a lot of weight and definitely look like they belong, who say hi and make small talk when they see me. Oh ... hey ... I just realized ... I'm a regular, too!

It is different when you see the same people there and you actually talk to them.
As to having to move a lot of weight, not so much. I pretty much have changed technique from trying to go higher to trying to o slower. Read about a theory where it matters as much in building muscle the time under resistance. Didnt really think about it before, but one of the days that is on my sced, curls are on a resistance band. Honestly, after 3 sets of 15 of those, I feel it as much as I do with loose weights or a machine. Thing it, there is never a moment in the curl that there isnt pressure on the bicep. I changed about a month ago and I think there is definition forming that really wasnt coming along before. Slowed everything down. Had to drop weight off of the front and side raises, but I feel it as much or more by not shrugging them up, then dropping, but doing a rep up, stop, and a rep down.

 

[doc]

***UPDATE***

I can do a pull up!!!

Nice!

All gym folks have a signature exercise, and the pull up is mine. Been working on adding reps and additional weight, but think the ageing process is winning.

 

[Monique]

As to having to move a lot of weight, not so much. I pretty much have changed technique from trying to go higher to trying to o slower. Read about a theory where it matters as much in building muscle the time under resistance. Didnt really think about it before, but one of the days that is on my sced, curls are on a resistance band. Honestly, after 3 sets of 15 of those, I feel it as much as I do with loose weights or a machine.

"Time under tension" is the name of the game for body building / muscle size. Slow reps, lots of them. That's what I'm doing in the current part of my program. Then later, strength training, fewer reps at a normal tempo. You'll get some strength gains from doing high reps, but it's more about muscle size. If you want to look swole, yes, go slow and do lots of them.

https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lift-for-length-build-muscle-with-time-under-tension.html

 

[Rod9301]

Nice!

All gym folks have a signature exercise, and the pull up is mine. Been working on adding reps and additional weight, but think the ageing process is winning.

I was pretty happy with my 5 pullups with 45 lbs until i read that a famous climber, who weighs 30 lbs less than me, does 12 with 110 lbs.

Aging doesn't matter so much. I'm 70 and still increase my weights and reps.