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Green08

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Ikon has increased skier traffic at most destination mountain--the pass is doing what Alterra created Ikon to do.

Do any locals at an Ikon resort feel like skier visits have seen little or no impact? Is there a resort Ikon's lightning has not scorched?

Those of you with good experience at Epic Pass resorts and now Ikon areas, have Ikon resorts become just as problematic with lift lines and overcrowding? I ask for perspective if the sky is falling. From an overcrowding view, do we now have two evil empires, or can we at least say..."Well you could be in line in Breck at Peak 7 this weekend! So count your blessings."?
 

Lake n Ski

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I'm taller than 98% of most skiers and the general population. I let my feet dangle. Have never had issue with bar pushing down on my legs.
 

Jerez

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Disappointed in the Jackson community.

Jackson is one of those iconic (pun intended) resorts that folks want to check off their bucket list. This being the first year of the Ikon pass and a good snow year, it's not surprising that there is an influx of Ikon pass holders there. Maybe it'll taper off in a year or two, especially if the interlopers feel the snobbery. I remember thinking I'd never want to go back to Squaw because of the vibe from all the idiots trying to outdo each other in their boasting. What a bore. If you really want to show your $hit, shut up and be beautiful on the hill.

We have the Ikon base pass because we had little choice. We used to get the Winter Park pass and then the RMSP. We always spent a couple of days at Steamboat on it, which we would not have done if we'd had to pay full window price. I never felt any pushback from folks at the 'Boat. The idea that someone would resent my presence just because of the kind of pass I hold seems absurd. I haven't heard much about the influx at Taos from Ikon which also has something of a similar draw. Heading up there on a day trip this week and will keep ears open. But I sure hope New Mexico doesn't exhibit that kind of infantile attitude.
 

DanoT

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When i got my Ikon pass it came with an Ikon sticker that I stuck on my truck camper but I wish I had stuck it on my helmet, you know just to piss off some entitled dirt bag JH locals.

If I hear any local's anti Ikon BS while on the tram I will make sure to ask them if they own the snow that falls from the sky.
 

Guy in Shorts

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Ikon pass holders are welcome here at Killington. With over 25 million in improvements last season we need to increase numbers of skiers visits to support continued investment. We have plenty of lift capacity to support more skiers. Lots of love here at Killington to all our IKON visitors.
 

Ogg

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Ikon pass holders are welcome here at Killington. With over 25 million in improvements last season we need to increase numbers of skiers visits to support continued investment. We have plenty of lift capacity to support more skiers. Lots of love here at Killington to all our IKON visitors.
Killington days were pretty much the tipping point that pushed me to the Ikon pass this year. I've already used 4 out of my 5 days there. Next time I'm in VT I'm forced to use my days at Sugarbush instead.:huh:
:daffy:
 

KingGrump

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I haven't heard much about the influx at Taos from Ikon which also has something of a similar draw. Heading up there on a day trip this week and will keep ears open. But I sure hope New Mexico doesn't exhibit that kind of infantile attitude.

No worries, mate. The Taos folks are real cool about the Ikon pass. They have been trying to increase their skier days for ages to keep the mountain going.

On another note, I was there couple weeks back and I do noticed a large increase in weekend skiers from CO using the Ikon pass. I can tell them apart from the way they charge down the hill. Skis with tons of physicality and very aggressive attitude. I guess going for all the gusto they can get in the couple half days of the weekend. Not exactly what I call a pleasant crowd.
 

Ken_R

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The economy is firing on all 8 cylinders, its busy everywhere cause people can afford to travel and ski.

Great for the ski business and bad for locals at a previously empty destination resort.

Exactly. Also, empty ski areas do not last long so those locals would have lost "their" ski area in a short amount time.

The EPIC Pass season pass model has allowed Ski Resorts access to capital that was not even dreamt of before. We have seen the improvements although I get some people do not see them as improvements and there is an environmental impact for sure (thats another thread).

I personally know what it is like to live in an area that would do anything to get the tourism that Colorado gets and I myself have been a tourist plenty of times here and elsewhere. So every time I have a chance I make people's experience at the resort or anywhere in Colorado better. Whether it is helping someone pick up their skis after having a yard sale to smiling and talking to people at the lift. Being nice does not cost anything.
 
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KingGrump

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Took one for the team and went skiing at DV on Saturday. The lead in weekend to the President week. DV posted 34” of new snow for the week and 7” new overnight.

Over the years, we had probably had over 100 ski days at DV since 1981. The last time we skied DV was during the 2014 when we spent the season at the Bird.

As Ikon pass holders, we had to reserve tickets online prior to our arrival at DV. To say the reservation web site sucks would be an understatement. I can only conclude from that experience that they really don’t want Ikon pass holders there.

Moving along to the physical world. Driving in, parking and the shuttle were very well organized and pleasant. No changes and no surprises.

We took our skis and boots upstairs and that is when the everything went south. I am a New Yorker and spent my fair share of time in Grand Central. Let me tell you, Grand Central during rush hour has nothing on Deer Valley. The place is just packed wall to wall with people. Both inside and outside. I have never seen so many pairs of cheap rental skis in one place. I see skiers with current year Bogner jacket walking around with cheap a$$ rental skis. WTF. I guess they must have their priorities. And it is definitely not skiing.

The locker room was awash in humanity. Too many people. Not enough benches for booting up. Not enough room for people to stand. The basket check lines were about 20 minutes. Coin lockers were also available. I am sure there are not enough of those to go around given the holiday horde.

After a quick boot up, we took our skis and had trouble getting near the lift corral. Masses of skiers milling around aimlessly on every square foot of available space in the area between the lodge and the lift corral make getting to the lift corral very difficult. I have never witnessed a scene like this at any resort in my entire life. SAD. VERY SAD.

We have spent many holiday weeks skiing resorts both east and west with Andrew. This is by far the most obscene crowding I’ve ever witnessed.

Back to skiing. Both Mamie and I headed for the single line on the Carpenter chair. The lift maze was very well organized. The maze was full and extended passed the ropes. It looked like a 15 minute wait. OTOH, the single line moved really quick. My wait was about 2-1/2 minutes. A very pleasant surprise.

After getting off the Carpenter chair, we headed over to the Sterling chair. There is no skipping the Sterling chair if one wants to ski Bald mountain. The lift corral was packed. Well beyond the ropes. But it was a very organized chaos. Probably about a 20 minutes wait. We headed for the singles line again. My wait was about 1-1/2 minutes. Impressive.

Did about 6 runs off the Sultan and Mayflower chair. The Sultan maze was about 5 minutes. Not bad for a holiday weekend. The Mayflower was ski on with most chairs going up empty. Most of the black runs we skied were empty. The blue section had a few more skiers on them, but not what I would call crowded. Most skiers were skiing in control. Only saw two idiots straight lining the runs.

So far, the skiing has been very nice. Nice enough for me to forget the cluster**** of the base area.

We went into Silver Lake Lodge for lunch. The lodge felt the same. A bit crowded but not terrible for a holiday weekend. The big disappointment was when I found out they eliminated the carving station, my favorite. So it’s the usual burger and Bratwurst. Decent but nothing to write home about.

After lunch, we headed over the other side to ski the Daly Chutes off the Empire chair. Unfortunately, the Qunicy lift went down. The only other way up that side of the resort was via the old and slow Red Cloud triple. The crowd at the Red Cloud lift was insane. Easily about 25/30 minutes. Again, the singles line to the rescue. Got on the chair after about 5 minutes wait.

Skied over to the Empire chair and found another full corral. Skied into singles line and was rewarded with a chair after about a minute. Did eight laps on Empire using the singles line. The wait for the singles line ran anywhere from ski on to 1-1/2 minutes. Quite surprising considered it was a full maze every time.

The locker room at the end of the day was an unholy mess. Just imagine the cluster that occurred over a three hours period in the morning compressed into a single hour. Damnnnnnn.

I walk away from the locker room, shell shocked. Totally amazed how f*** up things can get.

In order to support the increased cap and still provide an “acceptable” experience to their clients. DV will have to at least double the sizes of the base area facilities. Locker room and public staging space outside the base buildings.

Lift capacity wise. Almost every major lift had a full corral. Which generally translate into a 15 minutes wait. Not what I would call a premium resort experience.

Over all the skiing experience was very good. The new snow skied well. The grooming crew did a great job laying out a good surface at the start of the day. But by 10 AM, it was trashed beyond belief due to the nature of the new snow. The trails were rutted and bumped up. I loved it. My favorite type of groomer. But then some on this forum have accused me not noticing the bumps on bump runs. However, if I am truly an intermediate groomer zoomer, I would be royally pissed. I would demand they send out the grooming crew at two hour intervals.

I guess at this point, most will blame the crowding on the Ikon pass. To my surprise, that was not my conclusion at all. Both Mamie and I rode single for most of the day. We spoke to lots of people. What we found is that most DV skier are not there on the Ikon pass. Out of all the chair rides for the day, I meet one, exactly one family on the Ikon pass. Most are paying some form of retail and/or package deal. We actually had to explain the Ikon pass to a few of them. WTF. I guess you really can’t fix stupid.
 

Near Nyquist

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No worries, mate. The Taos folks are real cool about the Ikon pass. They have been trying to increase their skier days for ages to keep the mountain going.

On another note, I was there couple weeks back and I do noticed a large increase in weekend skiers from CO using the Ikon pass. I can tell them apart from the way they charge down the hill. Skis with tons of physicality and very aggressive attitude. I guess going for all the gusto they can get in the couple half days of the weekend. Not exactly what I call a pleasant crowd.
I could tell cause they crashed in front of us and started talking all kinds of smack cause they couldn’t ski n the bumps proved it
 

sbooker

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I once heard it mentioned that crowd numbers tends to diminish gradually after Presidents weekend. Is this usually the case? The 'non die hard' locals have had enough and the tourist numbers dwindle?
 

Norther1

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I have a trip planned to Deer Valley the first weekend in March. Granted not a holiday weekend, but I'll be "interested" to see what the crowd level is.
The last time I skied Deer Valley on a Saturday several years ago, I was also a bit surprised by the crowd level---Tons of people just milling around and clustering by the base lift but not really moving toward the lift--just seeming to stand around. I found it strange. That day the lodges were also packed and hard to find a place to sit for lunch even though I went early at like 11am--I think there were more people inside the lodges than actually out on the ski runs. And that was before Ikon!
I'll be curious to see what I find this time . . . .
 

Philpug

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Interesting comments about Deer Valley. @Andy Mink, @Tricia and myself were just there about a week ago for the Freestyle WC which was also during the Sundance Folm Festival. I knwo I expected a larger crowd than was there, it was very well organized and the lift lines were not bad at all. I do agree that the funnel into DV (ncluding the locker room) cannot handle what crowds they originally anticipated when the resort was initually conceived.
 

Andy Mink

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Tons of people just milling around and clustering by the base lift
We noticed that too. It's so close to the ski racks (which, BTW, are possibly the worst configuration I've seen) that there isn't a lot of room to click in without being in the way of getting the corral. It was kind of interesting but not terrible, at least on the days we were there.
 
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Lorenzzo

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I have a trip planned to Deer Valley the first weekend in March. Granted not a holiday weekend, but I'll be "interested" to see what the crowd level is.
The last time I skied Deer Valley on a Saturday several years ago, I was also a bit surprised by the crowd level---Tons of people just milling around and clustering by the base lift but not really moving toward the lift--just seeming to stand around. I found it strange. That day the lodges were also packed and hard to find a place to sit for lunch even though I went early at like 11am--I think there were more people inside the lodges than actually out on the ski runs. And that was before Ikon!
I'll be curious to see what I find this time . . . .
Fair and accurate from my perspective. DV no longer operates like a premium resort, it’s overloaded for not only what it claims ito be but I would think also for most people on vacation hoping to relax, be safe and have fun.

Unfortunately it isn’t only weekends and holidays. Sundance/World Cup is an exception as much of the lodging is taken up by Sundance. It is completely atypical.

As a local who has no expectation that DV be run for me or my kind, one of the reasons I started this thread was to see how vacationers were reacting to the changed experience, particularly vacationers with pre-Alterra experiences at DV. So thanks.
 

LKLA

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If Alterra sells 250-300K IKON passes it is because of the attractiveness of being able to visit places like Deer Valley, Aspen, Snowbird or Mammoth. Not because buyers were excited to visit places like Loon, Crystal or Copper. Say 25% of IKON pass holders decide to visit those resorts - that means an additional ~75,000 people visiting DV or Snowbird (of course not all evenly spread out - a lot of them will show up at the same time causing bottlenecks). This explains the influx from IKON pass holders being felt at certain mountains like DV much more than at others.
 
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Andy Mink

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particularly vacationers with pre-Alterra experiences at DV
Unfortunately I didn't have any experience with pretty much any "resort" area before Epic, MC, and IKON. I assumed (there I go again) they would be crowded with long lift lines and tons of people on runs that I could handle. What I've found so far at Mammoth, Squaw, Kirkwood, Northstar, Alta, Snowbird, Snowbasin, DV and Solitude is there are reasonable lift lines on days that aren't holidays, at least the days I was there. The same people/personalities are at every area: the chill people, the new people who are tentative, the locals who know where the stashes are, the bros, the "I'm better than you get out of my way" skiers, and the retired guy who just wants to make some laps and experience a new spot. I'm the last one. I'd never be able to visit the places I have without the IKON type passes.

What the passes afford me is the opportunity to ski but not feel bad about getting off the mountain if the weather gets bad, the crowds get big, or my legs give out. I couldn't justify paying full window price and then feeling obligated to "get my money's worth" at the risk of a bad day.
 
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