IKON the Lightning Rod

[Started at 53]

DV is not lowering their grooming standards. They are making the place safer for both you and I.
One of the primary cause of out of control skiers (SCUDS) is the superb grooming. Cutting back on the grooming will probably save lives. That is a good thing. No?

Interesting take.

 

[KingGrump]

Slow down! 100ks of Ikon passes sold - certainly not all those folks are headed to DV. At least I hope not - for @Started at 53 sake!

Dude, for you and @Started at 53 , I'll take one for the team and head over there this weekend and let you guys know how bad it suck compare to previous years.
My first time there was in 1981 so should be interesting.

 

[Goran M.]

Slow down! 100ks of Ikon passes sold - certainly not all those folks are headed to DV. At least I hope not - for @Started at 53 sake!

Billions invested and hundreds of thusand passes sold ...

again ... slow down !

 

[LKLA]

Billions invested and hundreds of thusand passes sold ...

again ... slow down !

“Alterra has “borrowed” hundreds of millions - billions - of investor money.” and “Alterra has created tons of value for the Ikon pass and for the hundreds of thousands who bought the pass.”

What is incorrect?

 

[DanoT]

One of the things in the article on page one of this thread about crowds at JH is that they have overlooked the attractiveness of cheap rooms in Jackson. Accommodation is usually the biggest expense on a ski trip, but not in Jackson Wy.(20 minutes from the skiing) where a Motel 6 room is $60 in winter and $200 in summer when Jackson becomes the Gateway to Yellowstone Park. Other lodging is similar, some not even open in winter. IMO the inexpensive lodging is one of JH's biggest draws.

 

[Goran M.]

“Alterra has “borrowed” hundreds of millions - billions - of investor money.” and “Alterra has created tons of value for the Ikon pass and for the hundreds of thousands who bought the pass.”

What is incorrect?

Truth - that is incorrect in your statement.

 

[LKLA]

One of the things in the article on page one of this thread about crowds at JH is that they have overlooked the attractiveness of cheap rooms in Jackson. Accommodation is usually the biggest expense on a ski trip, but not in Jackson Wy.(20 minutes from the skiing) where a Motel 6 room is $60 in winter and $200 in summer when Jackson becomes the Gateway to Yellowstone Park. Other lodging is similar, some not even open in winter. IMO the inexpensive lodging is one of JH's biggest draws.

That is a great point.

 

[Goran M.]

"hundreds of thousands" did not buy IKON pass.
Alterra did not borrow billions of investors money.

 

[LKLA]

"hundreds of thousands" did not buy IKON pass.
Alterra did not borrow billions of investors money.

Hold on Goran - lets make sure we know what we talking about and indeed slow down -

Alterra has sold hundreds of thousand of IKON passes (Vail likely sold close to 1 million passes). Alterra’s very own head of sales, Bob Stinchcomb, said they expected to sell more than 250,000 IKON pases. And he has since stated they are exceeding expectations.

Alterra has raised that level of money to invest in and acquire mountains and implement its business plan, a large portion of it through KSL and via REIT funds. Anyone who was aproached to invest knows that amount is the minimum required for Alterra to competer against Vail. Heck, they could spend close to a billion on Jackson Hole alone if they were ever able to buy it.

 

[Goran M.]

OK, if you say so ...

 

[Goran M.]

So, your math is saying that close to 1.3 million people bought ski passes this year ?

1 million EPIC and over 250K IKON ?

Hard to believe.

 

[Goran M.]

Again, with certainty ...

Alterra did not "borrow" billions of investors money !

 

[LKLA]

Again, with certainty ...

Alterra did not "borrow" billions of investors money !

Notice the parenthesis around the word borrowed. Alterra indeed has commitments/liquidity/funds...etc of that magnitude. Also notice you say billions, plural, and I said billion.

You may also want to note that as I pointed out it was Alterra management who stated the approximate number of IKON pass sales. And, if you talk to industry analysts and read three research you would see the IKON pass sales numbers. As for Vail, all you have to is read Vail’s filings with the SEC and you would see the Epic pass sales metrics.

But hey, OK, if you say so...and you say so with certainty, again, then you must surely be right.

 

[Goran M.]

Backtrack ...

 

[LKLA]

Backtrack ...

Please don't misquote or mis-represent others' posts. I think the facts speak for themselves. A quick search on Google:

Vail itself will likely sell close to one million passes this season -
Vail Resorts has sold about 925,000 passes of all kinds for 2018-19 ski season
https://www.skyhinews.com/news/vail...0-passes-of-all-kinds-for-2018-19-ski-season/

Alterra guided to selling 250,000 passes at the start of the season and updates since then definitely show they are "on schedule" -
Alterra expects to sell 250,000 Ikon Passes, Vail Resorts says Epic Pass sales are up
https://coloradosun.com/2018/10/31/ikon-pass-epic-pass-sales-2018/

KSL itself has $9 billion in commitments/liquidity/funds. About 10-15% is for Alterra, if not more -
KSL Capital Partners is dedicated to investing in travel and leisure businesses. Since 2005, KSL has raised four private equity funds and two credit funds with approximately $9 billion in equity commitments.
https://www.kslcapital.com/whatwedo/index

But, I know, you say otherwise!...And, you say otherwise with certainty. As you stated "billion is a lot and hundreds of thousand is also a very much a lot of skiers...slow down", or "Your math saying that close to 1.3 million people bought ski passes" must be wrong, or is "hard to believe", or "hundreds of thousands did not buy IKON pass". Surely you are right and the data above and elsewhere is wrong. And, as you state "Alterra did not "borrow" billions of investors money!" Again surely you are right, and KSL is lying and confidential investment documents are incorrect. Makes perfect sense!

 

[Goran M.]

Vail did not sell 1 million EPIC passes ! Vail did sell 925,000 "passes of all kinds" !

Alterra "expects" to sell 250,000 IKON passes - show me the number that they did sell that !

Show me the number "borrowed" by Alterra, not the credit funds available.

You know the difference, right ?

 

[LKLA]

Vail did not sell 1 million EPIC passes ! Vail did sell 925,000 "passes of all kinds" !

Alterra "expects" to sell 250,000 IKON passes - show me the number that they did sell that !

Show me the number "borrowed" by Alterra, not the credit funds available.

You know the difference, right ?

Good luck, and take care of yourself.

 

[Goran M.]

Thank you.

Common sense would help as well .

 

[LKLA]

Thank you.

Common sense would help as well .

Honestly, I am not sure if you are trolling or if you are just messing with me. Either way, I am out. Take care of yourself.

Mod Edit: Language.

 

[Jim McDonald]

As far as enhancment at DV I think the majority of skiers would consider a higher % of terrain not groomed to Augusta greens perfection to be an improvement. (And I speak as the very personification of Josh's epigram re moguls.)