IKON the Lightning Rod

[Analisa]

A parking lot attendant mentioned they had an all-staff meeting about their plans (for next year? not sure). They are going to build a parking garage (not sure where) and since they will no longer need the overflow lot at Yodelin, they are building a hotel there and will shuttle guests over.

Talk about a change in ski area culture.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Keep me posted if you hear of anything more concrete. Based on the permitting process, there's no way it's cleared the red tape.

 

[HardDaysNight]

Of course the Ikon pass has increased visits at various resorts beyond what they would have been without it. That’s the whole objective of launching the bloody thing. And it’s the goal of the resorts that signed up as Ikon partners. If they didn’t think Ikon would result in an overall increase in skier visits to their resort they wouldn’t have done so. That’s obvious.

What’s also obvious is that there’s been a substantial increase in skier visits to major resorts over the past decade or so. And it’s not primarily old retired geezers. The surge in young families and their revolting infants is the most prominent.

 

[Analisa]

@Coach13 Totally understandable that a company needs to provide value to shareholders. What I don't like is resorts being run in the interest of shareholders instead of the interest of skiers. I've personally had better experiences at the indy resorts and non-profs. I think Alterra does a pretty good job balancing the need to create a diverse portfolio and mitigate variable snowfall and revenue across resorts and build improvements, but also recognizing what juice isn't worth the squeeze. Their CEO's a longtime ski industry professional and got his start as a lifty and I think there's still a decent amount of heart & soul in the company.

I just really don't like Vail. The resorts just have a bit of a "Ski Disney" feel and the luxury approach doesn't really jive with Washington skiing. People who want the "vacation experience" usually head up to Whistler or get on a plane, but ski locally much less often. The local good are way too wet & inconvenient to feel fancy. There's definitely demand for Vail flavored skiing in the state, I'm just bitter they chose mine.

 

[Goran M.]

Skier visits are up !
Retail sales are up !
New hotel capacities are being built !
New lodges and skier facilities are built !
New chairlifts and gondolas are installed !
Condos are flying off the shelves !
Airbnb owners are doing well with the occupancy of their properties !

And so on ...

It is obvious that this is the good time to be involved with skiing related business.

This is in Val D'Isere where they have not heard of IKON !

 

[AmyPJ]

I think the other important point is that vacationer friendliness isn't just about the number of additional people - it's also the changes that management makes to cater to vacationers at the expense of locals and the resort's culture. Just after the Whistler acquisition, the (very pro-Vail) former mayor of the Whistler municipality sent a message to lower-mainland locals that "we don't necessarily want people who are coming up for a day, packing a bag with their lunch in it, and not really appreciating the mountain culture that we have."

Likewise at Stevens, where they're strongly considering removing the RV lot. F Lot is kind of "home" for a lot of the local legends who make Stevens cooler than just the official ski resort of Microsoft and Amazon.com. Lots of race families set up shop there and it's where our Ingrid's and our Arne's come from. Getting rid of it doesn't have a huge impact on the numbers. 30 skiers? 50? But those customers all show up without a kitchen in their ride or a warm place to drink beer and they're way more likely to be the rental & lessons sort of customer. Sometimes a small increase in visitors comes with a middle finger to long time customers, locals, and a culture that's a little quirky.

Yes! The locals get the shaft.
Our perk this year? We get a commemorative pin for 50, 75, and 100 days! Yahoooo!

 

[LKLA]

@Coach13 Totally understandable that a company needs to provide value to shareholders. What I don't like is resorts being run in the interest of shareholders instead of the interest of skiers. I've personally had better experiences at the indy resorts and non-profs. I think Alterra does a pretty good job balancing the need to create a diverse portfolio and mitigate variable snowfall and revenue across resorts and build improvements, but also recognizing what juice isn't worth the squeeze. Their CEO's a longtime ski industry professional and got his start as a lifty and I think there's still a decent amount of heart & soul in the company.

I just really don't like Vail. The resorts just have a bit of a "Ski Disney" feel and the luxury approach doesn't really jive with Washington skiing. People who want the "vacation experience" usually head up to Whistler or get on a plane, but ski locally much less often. The local good are way too wet & inconvenient to feel fancy. There's definitely demand for Vail flavored skiing in the state, I'm just bitter they chose mine.

Life is too short to be bitter at a ski company! Lots of amazing choices to choose from. Just like restaurants, colleges, cereal brands, car manufacturers... plenty of choices.

A company has an obligation to run the business as best they can for their shareholders, be it private or public shareholders. Otherwise they will likely be sued.

This idea that a ski company does not operate with skiers as their main focus is silly. It just may not be your best interest! The ski business is a tough business to please everyone - the difference among skiers is often vast across many ways. If skiers don’t show up then what is the point of the entire enterprise? How will all the hard working people at the mountain get paid, how will suppliers get paid, how will investments and upgrades be paid for to keep the mountain in good shape?

If you think Alterra is leaving money on the table then you are being naive at best. They are doing what they are doing (nurturing each resort’s unique character) because that is one of the main differentiatiors compared to Vail. And because they think it will make them A LOT of money. Alterra has “borrowed” hundreds of millions - billions - of investor money. None of them are investing their hard earned money for altruistic or charitable reasons.

Having said that, I too like what Alterra is doing - and will be doing - more so than what Vail has done so far.

 

[Goran M.]

I also do like what Alterra is doing much better than MTN. They are operating more as a co-op and are harvesting the benefits of multiple factors that can make ski business fail or flourish. Once those factors are not so favorable it would be much easier to break apart this "alliance" of sorts and let each part fend for themselves and therefore more likely to survive as parts ...

With the MTN - not so sure, they might be getting too big and there are many mouths to feed ...

 

[HardDaysNight]

Yes! The locals get the shaft.
Our perk this year? We get a commemorative pin for 50, 75, and 100 days! Yahoooo!

Perhaps it could become your most prized ski possession

 

[Started at 53]

Along the lines that @Analisa is taking about, I am not seeing any added value at DV from Alterra. The only thing added is about a 15% price hike on passes. I AM seeing a less groomed mountain than in the past two years. It seems to me there are way more “natural” runs this year than in years past. I was lead to believe by someone in the know that the “experience” was going to be enhanced, I am just not seeing it.

As stated above, the only thing that seems enhanced to me is the price of my pass.

 

[LKLA]

Along the lines that @Analisa is taking about, I am not seeing any added value at DV from Alterra. The only thing added is about a 15% price hike on passes. I AM seeing a less groomed mountain than in the past two years. It seems to me there are way more “natural” runs this year than in years past. I was lead to believe by someone in the know that the “experience” was going to be enhanced, I am just not seeing it.

As stated above, the only thing that seems enhanced to me is the price of my pass.

You don’t see the value because you already skied there! Folks who did not and who bought the IKON pass likely see plenty of value.

Btw, pass prices are up just about everywhere, not unique to DV or DV/Alterra.

How long have you been skiing at DV? 15, 20 years?

 

[Started at 53]

You don’t see the value because you already skied there! Folks who did not and who bought the IKON pass likely see plenty of value.

Btw, pass prices are up just about everywhere, not unique to DV or DV/Alterra.

How long have you been skiing at DV? 15, 20 years?

Started in 2015, so not long. I was led to believe Alterra was going to make an already good place better, I am not seeing any improvement. I like groomers, and the grooming is not as good as previous years, I should say not as extensive I suppose. I have not seem any added value to justify a 15% price hike in the first year of Alterra ownership.

 

[LKLA]

2-3 seasons is not a basis from which to draw much of a conclusion. Far from it, more so in something as highly variable as ski conditions. Drawing a conclusion on that basis is rather meaningless / misleading. 15, 20, 35 seasons, that is something.

Anyhow, to complain about pass price at DV is like owning a Ferrari and complaining about the price of gas. DV skis more days in one season than many resorts ski in three, and most of those days with better conditions.

Your are lucky to live in one of the ski capitals of the world - Brighton, Alta, Solitude, Park City, Snowbird...are all calling your name!

 

[Started at 53]

@LKLA

You my friend are missing the whole basis of the post you originally quoted. I was trying to convey that Alterra was supposed to make a good place better, that is what I was led to believe... I only stated that in the first year of Alterra/Ikon I have not seen any added value, I have not seen any increased service. I have noticed poorer grooming standards. Sorry, but that is the way it is. This is about Ikon and what they do/bring, not DV and the past 15/20/25 year history.

So for the short duration of Alterra/Ikon, yes I can and have given a person assessment of changes... is that not what this thread is about?

 

[LKLA]

@LKLA

You my friend are missing the whole basis of the post you originally quoted. I was trying to convey that Alterra was supposed to make a good place better, that is what I was led to believe... I only stated that in the first year of Alterra/Ikon I have not seen any added value, I have not seen any increased service. I have noticed poorer grooming standards. Sorry, but that is the way it is. This is about Ikon and what they do/bring, not DV and the past 15/20/25 year history.

So for the short duration of Alterra/Ikon, yes I can and have given a person assessment of changes... is that not what this thread is about?

Ok! So now you are drawing conclusions on 2-3 seasons of skiing and HALF a season of Alterra being in the picture!?!?

Hard to do much the first season of owning a resort. Trust me. If anything it’s easier to make it worse than to improve anything.

Alterra should make DV better, but as many others have stated, Alterra is not the hands on owner that Vail is, so much of what is happening at DV is likely not Alterra’s doing. More likely than not it seems to be Mother Nature given how the season has played out so far.

Alterra has created tons of value for the Ikon pass and for the hundreds of thousands who bought the pass and got to experience a great place like DV.

Btw, what exactly what were you expecting Alterra to bring/do/improve at DV?

 

[Started at 53]

@LKLA

I was told that Alterra was going to “enhance the DV experience”. Not my words, I had no specific expectations, I am just giving my opinion that thus far there is not any perceptible enhancements.

I think my short perspective is more than enough to form a pre and current Ikon analysis. 20 years ago does not mean anything as you previously tried to imply, this is about up to the purchase and post purchase.

The thread title is “IKON....”, not History of DV

 

[Goran M.]

All right ... now we are talking about "billions" and "hundreds of thousand" ... slow down ... billion is a lot and hundreds of thousand is also a very much a lot of skiers ... slow down ...

 

[LKLA]

@LKLA

I was told that Alterra was going to “enhance the DV experience”. Not my words, I had no specific expectations, I am just giving my opinion that thus far there is not any perceptible enhancements.

I think my short perspective is more than enough to form a pre and current Ikon analysis. 20 years ago does not mean anything as you previously tried to imply, this is about upto the purchase and post purchase.

The thread title is “IKON....”, not History of DV

“Short perspective” is an understatement! As is “more than enough” a hyperbole.

20 years certainly “means” more than 2. No need to imply anything when facts speak for themselves.

Btw, it was clear there was no history of DV being discussed here.

Hope Ikon brings whatever it is you were promised it would bring. Good luck!

 

[LKLA]

All right ... now we are talking about "billions" and "hundreds of thousand" ... slow down ... billion is a lot and hundreds of thousand is also a very much a lot of skiers ... slow down ...

Slow down! 100ks of Ikon passes sold - certainly not all those folks are headed to DV. At least I hope not - for @Started at 53 sake!

 

[Started at 53]

@LKLA

Have you skied DV before Alterra and then skied it this year?

Seems you are always right, I’ll leave you to it my friend.

 

[KingGrump]

I have noticed poorer grooming standards.

DV is not lowering their grooming standards. They are making the place safer for both you and I.
One of the primary cause of out of control skiers (SCUDS) is the superb grooming. Cutting back on the grooming will probably save lives. That is a good thing. No?