That’s a worse deal than changing the parking policy after they have sold passes.
Hopefully they will do the right thing for you!
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Ikon Pass Details Are Out
That’s a worse deal than changing the parking policy after they have sold passes.
Hopefully they will do the right thing for you!
Perhaps you can contact IKON directly and let them know about the situation and see if they can make it right??
Hopefully. I called them today, and the lady I spoke to was sympathetic, but couldn’t help and suggested I email their general email address and let them know what had happened. I did that, so we’ll see.
I don’t think it was a deliberate bait and switch or anything malicious at all. It’s something that you can probably expect with any new company coming together and it really only affects early Ikon pass buyers who ski at Stratton with a 5 or 6 year old kid - it’s a pretty specific situation, but one that unfortunately cost me $350.
With any luck, they’ll be able to help me out with this. Even a credit towards next years passes would be great.
I would nicely, politely, rationally and FIRMLY push this with Alterra. The fact is that had you known the facts you would have paid the $249. Gladly. And you have two young children, and I would bet fall into the demographic that Alterra is after long term.
Approached the right way, I will be VERY surprised if you don't get the pass at $249. I would not rule out getting the FULL $599 refund and a complementary pass. Or, if it takes some time, offering your daughter AND/OR your other child free passes next season.
Go to Alterra, and just make a nice logical appeal. As in "You may not be aware of it, but it was a surprise to me. Would you look at this, think about it, and see if you can be helpful. I'd like to start a relationship with Alterra and Ikon on the right foot."
I would go right to Rusty Gregory, the CEO. Good man. He will probably hand it off, with a quick comment to fix things. This is goodwill. What would you do? You'd make it right.
Going in through the Ikon folks, and the ticket sales/customer service won't yield the same results. BTDT on many related pass issues, and have never been disappointed when I went in high enough in the organization. Results that others said would never happen...just by being logical and approaching this people logically. And asking.......
Good luck.
Last edited:
Thanks for the advice. I sent an email to the address the rep suggested, laid out the situation factually, and asked for a refund of the difference. I’ll see how it goes and escalate if I need to.
I empathize with your scenario, but this was always a risk that you were taking to save yourself money. If you don't lock something in, you have no guarantee that prices are going to be the same. There's no guarantee that whatever deal is posted available prev years or prev season. A worse scenario could have been that you shown up on a freak busy day; and they inform you that they are maxed out and stopped window sales and only allowed pass holders. At least you were still able to get a child's pass at all.
I am in the same boat to a lesser degree, I was counting on November pricing for some computer equipment I'm in charge of procuring would carry through December but it didn't, and now i'm a bit stuck. A lesson is that getting a Time Option always has a secret cost, whether it's a $ discount for advance purchase; or through risk that the deal completely disappears. You can't have it both ways where you get all the benefits of the option without that extra cost/risk even if it's a hidden risk.
From a logic perspective, you didn't actually pre-buy anything for the child; so there is no contract, no transaction and no restitution due; it was your choice to let the deal go by. In comparison, if it was reverse and child tickets were $90/day and then they changed policy to children are free, that's a completely different scenario where you have standing for a complaint.
On personal principle, I don't think it's fair that different people in the exact same scenario get treated differently; just because they are able to work social engineering and the complaint game and say special keywords or not. So my idea of what's "right" is perhaps not the same as other members' posts.
To some degree, at least the cold unthinking profit-maximizing AI algorithm running on some server at the heart of Vail Resorts + their policies is perfectly fair in that regard.
Still, on a personal note hope you do get some money back (even though in principle, it represents some unfairness)
I am in the same boat to a lesser degree, I was counting on November pricing for some computer equipment I'm in charge of procuring would carry through December but it didn't, and now i'm a bit stuck. A lesson is that getting a Time Option always has a secret cost, whether it's a $ discount for advance purchase; or through risk that the deal completely disappears. You can't have it both ways where you get all the benefits of the option without that extra cost/risk even if it's a hidden risk.
From a logic perspective, you didn't actually pre-buy anything for the child; so there is no contract, no transaction and no restitution due; it was your choice to let the deal go by. In comparison, if it was reverse and child tickets were $90/day and then they changed policy to children are free, that's a completely different scenario where you have standing for a complaint.
On personal principle, I don't think it's fair that different people in the exact same scenario get treated differently; just because they are able to work social engineering and the complaint game and say special keywords or not. So my idea of what's "right" is perhaps not the same as other members' posts.
To some degree, at least the cold unthinking profit-maximizing AI algorithm running on some server at the heart of Vail Resorts + their policies is perfectly fair in that regard.
Still, on a personal note hope you do get some money back (even though in principle, it represents some unfairness)
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 2, 2017
- Posts
- 4,344
Well ok, it would be some sort extreme ill will if a resort advertised $50 New Year lift tickets but then charged $80 at the window after you woke up at 5:30 and drove for 3 hours. In Wade's case he called the specific ski areas and was informed of their policy. They might not have a legal obligation to honor it but it would probably be in their best interest to do so.
Well he confirmed their price, for that season. Personally, I wouldn't assume that anything would carry over, price-wise, from season to season. @Wade did you ask them if they would be keeping the same price for this season or explain your situation? If so, did anyone tell you yes they would be keeping the price the same?
I'd think most resorts would not comment on next season's prices or offer any sort of assurance that they won't change. Doesn't mean that a drastic change should happen, and I'd think Ikon could at least give a refund to match the price that could have been paid earlier. But I think it behooves everyone to not assume that this season's prices/deals/etc. are going to carry over - I've seen things change a lot from year to year.
yea i hear you, but thats a straw man hypothetical scenario which didn't happen. To make that example more realistic they would have said do you want to buy your $50 new years day ticket right now over the phone to lock it in, or the advertisement would have had fine print saying prices subject or while supplies lasts.
If somehow you have proof they had promised a deal and had in writing or advertising that deal sans subject to change fine print I agree with you, but thats not what happened. Even so it's still thin because since you gave no consideration(payment] there is no contract, so it becomes just a consumer issue and not a contract issue.
Even right now on strattons website on their adv purchase page it gives no promise on holding a price:
You can purchase lift tickets online until midnight prior to your arrival, but don't wait. The sooner you book, the more you save – the price you see today may be gone tomorrow.
Finally to your point on
They might not have a legal obligation to honor it but it would probably be in their best interest to do so.
Again what that sounds like to me is an exception to a policy, or in other words different people getting different outcomes.
If somehow you have proof they had promised a deal and had in writing or advertising that deal sans subject to change fine print I agree with you, but thats not what happened. Even so it's still thin because since you gave no consideration(payment] there is no contract, so it becomes just a consumer issue and not a contract issue.
Even right now on strattons website on their adv purchase page it gives no promise on holding a price:
You can purchase lift tickets online until midnight prior to your arrival, but don't wait. The sooner you book, the more you save – the price you see today may be gone tomorrow.
Finally to your point on
They might not have a legal obligation to honor it but it would probably be in their best interest to do so.
Again what that sounds like to me is an exception to a policy, or in other words different people getting different outcomes.
Last edited:
Just a thought. We’re talking about a FIVE year old.
What if the conversation was this simple:
“I’m buying our family’s passes. We have two kids, the youngest will be five for all of this coming season. Do I need to buy a kid’s pass for her?”
And what it the response was:
“No sir, kids 5 and under ski free. No pass needed! Thanks for buying your Ikon passes!”
To me, this is not a case of buyers remorse, or of the “price” increasing after the initial buy-in date, etc. It’s a change which I don’t personally think could or should have been anticipated. Frankly the age “thing” could easily have been set in cement before they began to sell passes.
I am assuming that there is nothing, anywhere, that would suggest a possible change.
I know a number of people in the Alterra family. I would seriously contact Rusty or Dave Perry, the President/COO. Both are “ski guys” and will absolutely hand it off with simple instructions to “Fix.” I would NOT do it by email. I would do it by snail mail.
This is, IME, totally different from subsequent changes in pass pricing and other offers. The family made a choice, an informed and well thought out one, based on the facts presented. Pretty simple. I’d bet the farm that nobody suggested “free at age five” could become “free at four”, so better lock in on a pass that the child doesn’t seem to need!
Going through the Ikon pass people? Dunno. The top guys at Alterra can waive this way in about 15 seconds. The pass selling group? I know how I would appeal it.
I have had situations occur beyond my control in our family that led me to ask for some consideration by some big ski companies, and when logically and calmly presented, every one has worked in our favor. A couple of times with comp’d passes for the following season.
If this were a different situation, I would be in the “you snooze, you lose” mode. Just bought two passes this week, due to some changes in plans, at a significant premium in price. Perfectly reasonable. Smart business.
What if the conversation was this simple:
“I’m buying our family’s passes. We have two kids, the youngest will be five for all of this coming season. Do I need to buy a kid’s pass for her?”
And what it the response was:
“No sir, kids 5 and under ski free. No pass needed! Thanks for buying your Ikon passes!”
To me, this is not a case of buyers remorse, or of the “price” increasing after the initial buy-in date, etc. It’s a change which I don’t personally think could or should have been anticipated. Frankly the age “thing” could easily have been set in cement before they began to sell passes.
I am assuming that there is nothing, anywhere, that would suggest a possible change.
I know a number of people in the Alterra family. I would seriously contact Rusty or Dave Perry, the President/COO. Both are “ski guys” and will absolutely hand it off with simple instructions to “Fix.” I would NOT do it by email. I would do it by snail mail.
This is, IME, totally different from subsequent changes in pass pricing and other offers. The family made a choice, an informed and well thought out one, based on the facts presented. Pretty simple. I’d bet the farm that nobody suggested “free at age five” could become “free at four”, so better lock in on a pass that the child doesn’t seem to need!
Going through the Ikon pass people? Dunno. The top guys at Alterra can waive this way in about 15 seconds. The pass selling group? I know how I would appeal it.
I have had situations occur beyond my control in our family that led me to ask for some consideration by some big ski companies, and when logically and calmly presented, every one has worked in our favor. A couple of times with comp’d passes for the following season.
If this were a different situation, I would be in the “you snooze, you lose” mode. Just bought two passes this week, due to some changes in plans, at a significant premium in price. Perfectly reasonable. Smart business.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 2, 2017
- Posts
- 4,344
Well put. Our kids used to get the free season pass to Bretton Woods with a seasonal ski lease deal. Since we had to line up our accommodations for the following season, we always took the risk that we'd have to pay for their passes if the kids' program were discontinued. But of course to avoid angering hundreds of parents spending lots of money there, Omni would always hedge our expectations by not guaranteeing that the pass deal was open ended. I would guess that if they were considering terminating the program, they would try to let people know in advance so they could plan accordingly and take advantage of early pass discounts; to do otherwise would risk alienating lots of families.
$90 for a day ticket for a 5 year old
. That’s some good wallet “curation”!
. That’s some good wallet “curation”!No, I didn't specifically ask whether the age policy or prices would change for 2018/2019.
Not directed at @dbostedo , but more just a general comment: To be clear, while I'm slightly annoyed that Stratton raised the rates for 5 and 6 year olds by 800%, and the timing of that increase meant I didn't have the information to make an informed decision at the deadline for discounted children's Ikon passes, I'm not upset at Alterra and I don't think I "deserve" anything back from them related to this issue.
There are probably a very small number of families affected in the way I am (i.e. families with a 5 or 6 year old who bought an Ikon pass before the April deadline that ski at Stratton but probably not for more than about 10 days), and I can't imagine something that specific was a consideration when Stratton was changing its policy.
That said, it would be great if someone at Ikon came back and said "you know what, we never considered that. It certainly wasn't our intention and we'll honor the early season price because of those specific circumstances". If they don't, that's OK too. I still think it's a great pass product, I'm going to get to use it at 3 of my favorite mountains this year (AltaBird, Jackson and Aspen) as well as a bunch of family trips to Stratton and maybe some Sugarbush and Killington too, and I'll know for next year to pick up an early season discounted pass for my daughter.
Telluride CEO gives out some details about the economics behind the Ikon an Epic pass partnerships.
Posting this after first discovering the link via @Lift Blog
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/12/...ld-know-before-picking-a-season-ski-pass.html
Posting this after first discovering the link via @Lift Blog
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/12/...ld-know-before-picking-a-season-ski-pass.html
Very interesting. The per ticket price that Telluride is paid by Vail is much higher than I would have expected. In a good season, I imagine that they will see a ton of benefit from their relationship with Vail. But a season like last, where the snow wasn't there, being on the Epic Pass doesn't let them hedge against weather in the same way that they could if they were owned by Vail or had a different agreement with Vail.
In other news, according to an Instagram post on Pico's account, Pico will now be included on the Ikon Pass, so your Killington days can now work at Pico also. Your total days at Killington/Pico is still 5/7. I remember posting way back about how it didn't make sense to me that Killington would be included and Pico wouldn't. I'm happy that Pico is now on the pass
!
Has anybody skied any of the "destination" resorts yet not owned by Alterra? I'd like to find out how the pass actually works, do you have to go into the Season Pass office and get tickets, or does the Ikon work in their scanners, gates, guns?
Feel free to name which destination you've used the Ikon and how the ticket system works.
Feel free to name which destination you've used the Ikon and how the ticket system works.
At Sugarloaf, presented pass at a ticket counter (not pass office) and got a paper day ticket.
Straight to lift at Aspen Highlands, Snowmass and Copper. Although you may not consider Copper a destination, a fella from Topeka might.
My pass was straight to lift at Jackson Hole. My two friends' passes had not yet arrived in the mail (Dec 8th) so they had to go to the ticket office, where they got their permanent passes without a hitch, in under 5 min, which were then straight to the lift.
