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jmeb

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IKON pass -- made the craziness of Eldora even crazier. Which has now introduced huge changes to parking: 3+ carpool or $20 every weekend, holiday, and popular mid-week day (i.e. powder day). No free parking for non-carpoolers on those days period. Eldora pass holders get to park for free if they drive a car they register with them. No such benefit for Ikon passholders.

I'd be pissed if I was Alterra. Eldora/Powdr just effectively reduced the value of the pass that they sold to a lot of people with the promise of "go on destination vacations, and ski your local hill".
 

tball

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I'd be pissed if I was Alterra. Eldora/Powdr just effectively reduced the value of the pass that they sold to a lot of people
I don't know, Eldora had to do something. Turning away pass holders because lots are full is worse. That was already happening many times per year recently even prior to Ikon. It was already a parking disaster and Ikon was set to make it much worse.

Eldora should have announced this months ago and $20 is crazy. Sounds like that's the point. Take the bus or carpool. Or, drive a bit further to MJ for better skiing and free and plentiful parking. That's what most will probably do, so Alterra will be happy about that.
 
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tball

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Looks like Ikon Pass took a chunk out of Epic Pass sales and MTN stock:

"The market apparently did not like the decline in pass revenue, with shares of Vail Resorts falling more than $50 a share — more than 18 percent — within hours of the earnings announcement, marking one of the biggest one-day sell-offs since the company went public 22 years ago."

https://coloradosun.com/2018/12/07/vail-resorts-stock-decline-epic-pass/
 
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coskigirl

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I don't know, Eldora had to do something. Turning away pass holders because lots are full is worse. That was already happening many times per year recently even prior to Ikon. Eldora was already a parking disaster and Ikon was set to make it much worse.

Eldora should have announced this months ago and $20 is crazy. Sounds like that's the point. Take the bus or carpool. Or, drive a bit further to MJ for better skiing and free and plentiful parking. That's what most will probably do, so Alterra will be happy about that.

I have really mixed feelings about all of this. I understand the why but have zero free parking options is more like Vail than Copper or WP.
 

tball

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I have really mixed feelings about all of this. I understand the why but have zero free parking options is more like Vail than Copper or WP.
Agreed. Is there a plan to fix the road and parking, or was that nixed by Boulder County? I don't recall the gory details, just that's it's gory. I wonder if this could be political too.
 

jmeb

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I don't know, Eldora had to do something. Turning away pass holders because lots are full is worse. That was already happening many times per year recently even prior to Ikon. It was already a parking disaster and Ikon was set to make it much worse.

Eldora should have announced this months ago and $20 is crazy. Sounds like that's the point. Take the bus or carpool. Or, drive a bit further to MJ for better skiing and free and plentiful parking. That's what most will probably do, so Alterra will be happy about that.

I'm not saying that they didn't need to do something. I'm saying that the solution is poorly timed, poorly designed ("Take RTD!" doesn't work when all the few RTD buses there are already full. Not to mention you have to pay at kiosks or via mobile app on non-existence cell service there), and poorly delivered.

I don't think Alterra will be happy about a place making such a significant change mid-year that drives skiers away. It sets a bad precedent for IKON pass which intentionally picked up feeder hills like Eldora.
 

Wilhelmson

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It was starbucks btw.

:nono:, too bad it wasn't coffee!

The pike was running low so I chose Christmas blend which was very good. I'm pretty sure it was coffee unless you have other information. I don't really care if its starbucks or green mountain/keurig or whatever.
 

KingGrump

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I don't think Alterra will be happy about a place making such a significant change mid-year that drives skiers away. It sets a bad precedent for IKON pass which intentionally picked up feeder hills like Eldora.

I wouldn't worry about Eldora. Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded.
 

Wilhelmson

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It was starbucks btw.

:nono:, too bad it wasn't coffee!

The pike was running low so I chose Christmas blend which was very good. I'm pretty sure it was coffee unless you have other information. I don't really care if its starbucks or green mountain/keurig or whatever.
 

tball

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Well, this doesn't look good for Eldora. It seems they can expand parking without any additional authorization:

"In order to accommodate an increase in resort visitation due to proposed projects, additional 560 parking spaces will be provided on private lands (approximately 3.5 acres). This project is not subject to my authorization, but is analyzed in the FEIS as a connected action."
https://www.gardenlawfirm.com/wp-co...ulder-area-ski-resort---s-expansion-plans.pdf
And, in a tweet last spring Eldora said parking was a top priority for improvements when they were turning away cars because lots were full.

Eldora_on_Twitter_Parking_lots_are_full.jpg

Yet, it seems they didn't expand parking this summer and instead announced the parking fees after pass sales were nearly complete. Unless I'm missing something, it's looking bad on Eldora.
 

princo

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I think I did 10 days or so at Eldora last year, so that would have been another $200 this year. I'm on the Epic Pass this year as I've been alternating passes, but I would have been upset if they announced this after I had purchased my pass. The Eldora-only season pass alone was $529. Too late, but in some resorts you could buy their own mountain pass and then add the iKon add-on as an additional fee. Was that an option for Eldora? Maybe you could avoid the parking fees in the future doing it that way?
 

KingGrump

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I am not aware of an Ikon pass add on option to a specific area's season pass similar to the MAX pass add on of a few years ago.
Any write ups?
 

dbostedo

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Looks like Ikon Pass took a chunk out of Epic Pass sales and MTN stock:

"The market apparently did not like the decline in pass revenue, with shares of Vail Resorts falling more than $50 a share — more than 18 percent — within hours of the earnings announcement, marking one of the biggest one-day sell-offs since the company went public 22 years ago."

https://coloradosun.com/2018/12/07/vail-resorts-stock-decline-epic-pass/

Maybe. But this is a case where Vail showed percentage increases in pass sales of something like 15% or more over the last few years, and that was expected to continue. And they "only" hit like 10% increase in pass sales this year. Is that the Alterra effect? It could be - seems likely - but it also could mean the stock fell due to overly optimistic projections, regardless of Alterra.
 

headybrew

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I don't know, Eldora had to do something. Turning away pass holders because lots are full is worse. That was already happening many times per year recently even prior to Ikon. It was already a parking disaster and Ikon was set to make it much worse.

Eldora should have announced this months ago and $20 is crazy. Sounds like that's the point. Take the bus or carpool. Or, drive a bit further to MJ for better skiing and free and plentiful parking. That's what most will probably do, so Alterra will be happy about that.


On more than one occasion last spring Winter Park was full and telling people to park in town and ride the bus...an increase of a couple a hundred cars per day could make this common.
 

tball

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Maybe. But this is a case where Vail showed percentage increases in pass sales of something like 15% or more over the last few years, and that was expected to continue. And they "only" hit like 10% increase in pass sales this year. Is that the Alterra effect? It could be - seems likely - but it also could mean the stock fell due to overly optimistic projections, regardless of Alterra.
No doubt. Nobody knows the Ikon impact, including Robert Katz, at least as he said in the conference call here:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/42...-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=9

Sounds like VR doesn't give projections on pass sales growth, so a drop like that takes the market by surprise.
 

tball

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I love that the Nedhead thinks Eldora should run free buses 20 miles up the canyon from Boulder while the public transportation buses from Boulder are not even full. And, the road has always been a mess. Boulder County seems to love having a local ski area but doesn't want to improve and maintain the only road to get there.

After expanding the existing lot, it sure seems like overflow parking in Ned with shuttles on busy days makes a ton of sense. Eldora should have addressed the parking issue long ago, certainly when they invested $10M in the new lift and other upgrades summer of 2017.
 

Wilhelmson

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Sounds like the appropriate public and private head honchos need to obtain some public input and get together to find a solution.
 

Wade

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So my first Ikon day was a little mixed. I took my 5 year old daughter to Stratton, VT for a daddy / daughter weekend. My pass worked flawlessly for lifts and resort charges and we had an awesome time skiing and hanging out. I had an unpleasant surprise with her lift ticket though.

Back when I purchased our family's passes in April, I checked with each of the resorts we planned to visit on the lift ticket price for 5 year olds to see whether it would be worthwhile purchasing an Ikon pass for my daughter also. Lift tickets at all of the resorts I checked with were either free or $10 for children her age. At those prices, it didn't make sense to purchase an Ikon pass for her, so I bought two full adult passes for myself and my wife, and took advantage of the $249 full child pass offer for my son.

When we stopped by the ticket window to pick up her lift ticket before we headed out to ski on Saturday, I was surprised to find that Stratton's policy had changed pretty significantly. In April when I checked, Stratton's published one day lift ticket price for children 6 and under was $10. Stratton's new policy has one day lift tickets for children aged 5 and up at $90. When I asked why the change, the lady at the ticket window said that she thought the policy had been updated to bring it into line with other Alterra owned resorts. Given that we've made plans to be at Stratton a lot this year, I had to buy my daughter an Ikon pass for $599 (rather than the $249 I would have paid back in April when I bought my sons' pass).

It was a bummer to spend $600 that I wasn't planning to spend. I wrote to Ikon to see if there's anything they can do to credit the difference between the discounted price and the price I paid on the weekend, given I would have purchased it back in April if I would have know that Alterra was going to change the child policy. I guess I should feel lucky that at least I found out over the weekend and not after the passes were no longer available.

Financials aside, it was an awesome weekend, and we both had a great time!
 

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