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Ikon/Alterra 20/21 COVID Operations Plan?

fatbob

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There is one caveat with Ikon lift tickets reservations for JH. The general public advance lift ticket sales open on October 5th and Ikon reservation system opens on November 8th. So Ikon pass holders will only be able to reserve their lift tickets a month later after general lift ticket reservations open.

Alterra have to be SUPER careful with JH. For many it is the BIGGEST draw on their pass (certainly was for me) plus they are using it as a reason to get upgrades to full Ikon. If they stiff Ikon passholders over JH , as is looking quite likely from here (e.g. the above non level playing field) they are going to jeopardise a ton of goodwill.
 

Seldomski

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Yeah, what does lunch look like in any of the lodges?

Based on my experience last day of the season '19-20 at Beaver Creek:
No self serve fountain drinks
No self serve condiments
All items are individually wrapped/packaged
Very few food selections/choices to make and they may run out of some options
Food is room temperature or colder (sandwiches/wraps)
Few indoor tables
Prices are still high

This was what they could muster as a last minute response.
 

ski otter 2

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I have pockets big enough for sandwiches and such. But I still have to figure out a better way than sucking plastic to get (and carry) water.
I climb 20 to 30 steep hikes/mountains per summer still, but use glass containers (and a back up filter straw) to carry water.
Unfortunately, a glass water container stored in some snow bank gets too cold to really enjoy, most of the ski season, even if the water tastes grand.
 

Olesya C

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Alterra have to be SUPER careful with JH. For many it is the BIGGEST draw on their pass (certainly was for me) plus they are using it as a reason to get upgrades to full Ikon. If they stiff Ikon passholders over JH , as is looking quite likely from here (e.g. the above non level playing field) they are going to jeopardise a ton of goodwill.
Agreed. I was not happy what they did. I have full Ikon and potential plans to go to JH for a few days, I was not pleased to learn that Ikon pass holders can reserved their lift tickets 1 month later after they are released for pre-purchase to general public. MCP pass holders are not required to make reservations at JH on the other hand.
 

dcs24

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Separate from the reservation system, Vail Resorts is also taking a more conservative approach with lift capacity. Specifically, unless two singles are riding on opposites ends of a quad or larger, only related parties will be loaded. Alterra resorts generally don't seem to plan to limit lift capacity at all, and this apparently comes from the top per this quote from Rusty Gregory:

“We’re becoming more convinced, based on the data that we see and the scientific evidence that we’re collecting, that with a mask, people loading together is likely sufficient mitigation to reduce contagion to an acceptable level,” Gregory said. “That’s the direction we’re headed. That would allow people who don’t know each other, who aren’t family members or part of the same cohort, to occupy the same lift for two reasons: the masks, and the very short duration of chairlift rides. And, the fact that it’s out in the environment and the wind that’s inherent to a lift that’s moving, even on a calm day.”

Alterra may feel it can avoid a reservation system if they can force guests to ride lifts at full capacity...
 
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Wasatchman

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Alterra have to be SUPER careful with JH. For many it is the BIGGEST draw on their pass (certainly was for me) plus they are using it as a reason to get upgrades to full Ikon. If they stiff Ikon passholders over JH , as is looking quite likely from here (e.g. the above non level playing field) they are going to jeopardise a ton of goodwill.
Jackson Hole may be calling the shots on how they want to handle this situation, not Alterra.
 

Wasatchman

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For sure. Doesn't mean it won't cost Alterra a lot of resentment if they fail to stand up to marginalisation of their passholders.
The dilemma is JHMR also needs to stand up for their direct customers. JHMR is already in the doghouse with much of their loyal direct customers for being part of Ikon to begin with. And JHMR apparently calling the shots on this, and it isn't that surprising JHMR is doing this no matter how much Alterra tries to push back. I still think it wouldn't be surprising if Alta, Snowbird and JHMR get off Ikon in the next few years anyway.
 

ski otter 2

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Separate from the reservation system, Vail Resorts is also taking a more conservative approach with lift capacity. Specifically, unless two singles are riding on opposites ends of a quad or larger, only related parties will be loaded. Alterra resorts generally don't seem to plan to limit lift capacity at all, and this apparently comes from the top per this quote from Rusty Gregory:

“We’re becoming more convinced, based on the data that we see and the scientific evidence that we’re collecting, that with a mask, people loading together is likely sufficient mitigation to reduce contagion to an acceptable level,” Gregory said. “That’s the direction we’re headed. That would allow people who don’t know each other, who aren’t family members or part of the same cohort, to occupy the same lift for two reasons: the masks, and the very short duration of chairlift rides. And, the fact that it’s out in the environment and the wind that’s inherent to a lift that’s moving, even on a calm day.”

Alterra may feel it can avoid a reservation system if they can force guests to ride lifts at full capacity...
Yes, this was the quote that was problematic to me also. Just such shoddy, convenient thinking here, seems like: "the very short duration of the chairlift rides," sound good, until one considers that the ski down is maybe still at most half as long, and thus, cumulatively in a day, two-thirds or more of one's time of unbroken skiing/lift riding will be spent on the lifts, with a lot of strangers close. I'd sure prefer masks and 6' distancing. Citing "scientific evidence" with this is pretty much poppycock, at this point in time, in such a context. It's unknown, and will be until wider experience with the virus over time, or ski operational experience this coming season, shows us more. Possibly learning the hard way, in a petri dish, of sorts, is not my idea of a good plan. Troubling, at least for a bit older folk.
 

Wasatchman

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Yes, this was the quote that was problematic to me also. Just such shoddy, convenient thinking here, seems like: "the very short duration of the chairlift rides," sound good, until one considers that the ski down is maybe still at most half as long, and thus, cumulatively in a day, two-thirds or more of one's time of unbroken skiing/lift riding will be spent on the lifts, with a lot of strangers close. I'd sure prefer masks and 6' distancing. Citing "scientific evidence" with this is pretty much poppycock, at this point in time, in such a context. It's unknown, and will be until wider experience with the virus over time, or ski operational experience this coming season, shows us more. Possibly learning the hard way, in a petri dish, of sorts, is not my idea of a good plan. Troubling, at least for a bit older folk.
A few months ago, the GM at Solitude told a group of us the plan was to require opposite ends of a quad for those not within the same party and to accommodate those who specifically request it to ride the chairlift alone.

I assume this is the plan at all of Alterra's resorts that they own.
 

ski otter 2

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I plan to make more turns and savor each run.
Actually, I took that into account, and pretty much doubled the time down normally: many of these lifts are between 10 and 14 minutes up, and if I were charging, they would only be 2.5 to 4 minutes down. So I was roughly doubling the time I'd take going down. Savoring each run, as you said. But risking my life on the way up, seems likely if I ski some places.
 

ski otter 2

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A few months ago, the GM at Solitude told a group of us the plan was to require opposite ends of a quad for those not within the same party and to accommodate those who specifically request it to ride the chairlift alone.

I assume this is the plan at all of Alterra's resorts that they own.
Yeah, but they said this was so with the "possible exception of the high capacity lifts." Those lifts are the unavoidable backbone of most Alterra areas, certainly the ones I go to.
 

Wasatchman

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Yeah, but they said this was so with the "possible exception of the high capacity lifts." Those lifts are the unavoidable backbone of most Alterra areas, certainly the ones I go to.
Gotcha. The GM at Solitude didn't make that distinction but if that's what the CEO said that is concerning. I mean, social distancing doesn't really work if you do it only when it's convenient. I expect they'd get a lot of pushback if they don't operate all lifts at reduced capacity.
 

Tricia

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Separate from the reservation system, Vail Resorts is also taking a more conservative approach with lift capacity. Specifically, unless two singles are riding on opposites ends of a quad or larger, only related parties will be loaded. Alterra resorts generally don't seem to plan to limit lift capacity at all, and this apparently comes from the top per this quote from Rusty Gregory:

“We’re becoming more convinced, based on the data that we see and the scientific evidence that we’re collecting, that with a mask, people loading together is likely sufficient mitigation to reduce contagion to an acceptable level,” Gregory said. “That’s the direction we’re headed. That would allow people who don’t know each other, who aren’t family members or part of the same cohort, to occupy the same lift for two reasons: the masks, and the very short duration of chairlift rides. And, the fact that it’s out in the environment and the wind that’s inherent to a lift that’s moving, even on a calm day.”

Alterra may feel it can avoid a reservation system if they can force guests to ride lifts at full capacity...
My gut says that you won't be forced to ride with people you don't know, with the exception of trams.

I just flew from Reno to Grand Rapids MI and didn't feel at risk with the practices of the people I encountered.
 

Wasatchman

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My gut says that you won't be forced to ride with people you don't know, with the exception of trams.

I just flew from Reno to Grand Rapids MI and didn't feel at risk with the practices of the people I encountered.
Essentially suicidal reputationally if Alterra forced full lift capacity and people got sick as a result. I'd be absolutely stunned if they weren't consistent on all the lifts.
 

ski otter 2

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Essentially suicidal reputationally if Alterra forced full lift capacity and people got sick as a result. I'd be absolutely stunned if they weren't consistent on all the lifts.
It's going to Winter Park this summer that made me wonder, in addition to those suspect posts from Alterra in the newspaper article and on their websites. Winter Park is full on Alterra now, and it was not being "consistent," unless it was consistently risky. (See my previous posts on this, about their gondola line - as first hand eye witness, close up.)

But summer and winter are two different things, hopefully. The summer is more a trial run, learning experience, not the real money maker. So I hope you are right.

I do know I've been to that other Alterra destination, Copper Mtn., twice this summer, scouting and hiking. And the second time, just this week, things had improved markedly - organization details more worked out, more employees starting to be informed, better signage and more spaces roped off in well thought out ways; and more uniform masks and distancing practices.. Glad I went back.

As I walked around the place again and talked to people, I felt a growing sense of relief and security. There was some confusion and misinformation still, but things seem to be going better there, real progress, more than I had imagined would happen from my first scouting trip there, and from phone calls just a week or two ago.

A bit of a correction to the first Copper trip I posted about: I misspoke. The first time, in the early morning there seemed to be an employee & friends breakfast party in the "Coaster Cabin," the relatively new (in the last year or so?) terminal, warming space and ticket office for the mountain rollercoaster that, unbeknownst to me, ran this last season and will this winter, just west of the American Flyer Lift, for folks who want alternatives to skiing. As I walked past this cabin and gathering, to hike on the mountain last time, that breakfast party was crowded with unmasked employees, crammed into that small space with early morning food and drink - little to no distancing. (Yikes.) So much so, that not having ever seen that "cabin" before, I mistook it for a combination breakfast/lunch shop, coaster terminal and warming hut. I mean, it was really crammed full of breakfasting people, mostly employees!

It turns out there was just a maybe routine (or a few times?) employee breakfast gathering going on of some sort, with folks carrying in coffee, doughnuts and breakfast dishes from the nearby lodge to the on mountain "Coaster Cabin," as they have named it. And that place does not serve coffee and snacks or light meals to the public. It does not sell food at all. That was just what the employees were doing there that day, and not sure how often. Come skiing season, no food in that place at all, I was told. Just a gathering place for mountain coaster riding, tickets, getting on the ride, resting and waiting to ride again. And by then, I presume, people there will be masked up and distancing, the full routine.
 
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dcs24

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Yes, this was the quote that was problematic to me also. Just such shoddy, convenient thinking here, seems like: "the very short duration of the chairlift rides," sound good, until one considers that the ski down is maybe still at most half as long, and thus, cumulatively in a day, two-thirds or more of one's time of unbroken skiing/lift riding will be spent on the lifts, with a lot of strangers close. I'd sure prefer masks and 6' distancing. Citing "scientific evidence" with this is pretty much poppycock, at this point in time, in such a context. It's unknown, and will be until wider experience with the virus over time, or ski operational experience this coming season, shows us more. Possibly learning the hard way, in a petri dish, of sorts, is not my idea of a good plan. Troubling, at least for a bit older folk.

And we've all been on stalled lifts because of mechanical issues or skier loading injury... these have always been inconvenient, but could be scary if you're sitting stationary for a prolonged period of time, wedged between strangers
 

dbostedo

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And we've all been on stalled lifts because of mechanical issues or skier loading injury... these have always been inconvenient, but could be scary if you're sitting stationary for a prolonged period of time, wedged between strangers
Yeah... I could see relaxing it to 3 on a quad or 4 on a 6-pack... but full up lifts seems unlikely to me. I really don't know though.
 

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