• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
We rent cars and drive them. Very rarely have I driven a SUV. In my experience, the SUVs in rental fleets are not better (from a traction standpoint) than a minivan or sedan and they cost substantially more with less functional cargo space.

I don't think anyone here claimed that the rental fleets are equipped with appropriate tires.

However, changing Colorado's laws could at least nudge the rental fleets into the right direction, as they have more incentive than individual drivers do. One could imagine rental companies being required to post notices about these restrictions.
 

mikel

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jul 3, 2016
Posts
1,882
The vast majority of accidents I personally see on I70 are caused by reckless driving.

And I believe CSP would agree. There has been several news stories over the past week talking about CSP now having 3 aircraft, 90 vehicles pulled over the last few days, heavy emphasis on enforcement between C470/I70 and Idaho Springs. I think Fox31 had someone flying with CSP for part of a day.
 

Nathanvg

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
525
I don't think anyone here claimed that the rental fleets are equipped with appropriate tires.

However, changing Colorado's laws could at least nudge the rental fleets into the right direction, as they have more incentive than individual drivers do. One could imagine rental companies being required to post notices about these restrictions.
No need to post notices, every rental car agent puts a hard sell on upgrading to a 4x4 because they make a killing on them. I've even had them tell me I needed a better car to be legal in August.

I'm with @Seldomski, where are the stats that show rental cars or FWD are the problem? I've been taking ski trips for 40 years and 98% of the time with FWD. The % of SUVs and snow tires has gone up over the years but still most cars on the road in storms are FWD with M+S and do just fine.

I hate these debates since they seem to pit locals who already have AWD and against everyone else. The locals with AWD assume they will benefit for a variety of reasons. I think most of that benefit isn't because there will be less issue per driver but rather, less cars on the road. And worse of all, in other states that have these restrictions, they often backfire due to huge lines to get your tires checked.

Sure we could invest in RFID and bunch of other complexity. But I think it makes a lot more sense to focus simpler solutions like hiring more snowplow drivers and restricting hazmat trucks during storms.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
No need to post notices, every rental car agent puts a hard sell on upgrading to a 4x4 because they make a killing on them. I've even had them tell me I needed a better car to be legal in August.

I was referring to snow tires, not 4x4 or AWD. 4x4, great for going. Less useful for stopping.
 

Mike King

AKA Habacomike
Instructor
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
3,383
Location
Louisville CO/Aspen Snowmass
3- All CMV's MUST stay on the right lane at all times during the time said Traction Law is in effect. No exceptions. No passing, nothing. Includes all vehicles with trailers.
Personally I'd like to see them able to put this in place at any time there's heavy traffic. Of course, I suspect it would work as well as the current left lane law.

Mike
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
Personally I'd like to see them able to put this in place at any time there's heavy traffic. Of course, I suspect it would work as well as the current left lane law.

Mike

It is totally doable, I have seen it implemented in other states.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
No need to post notices, every rental car agent puts a hard sell on upgrading to a 4x4 because they make a killing on them. I've even had them tell me I needed a better car to be legal in August.

I'm with @Seldomski, where are the stats that show rental cars or FWD are the problem? I've been taking ski trips for 40 years and 98% of the time with FWD. The % of SUVs and snow tires has gone up over the years but still most cars on the road in storms are FWD with M+S and do just fine.

I hate these debates since they seem to pit locals who already have AWD and against everyone else. The locals with AWD assume they will benefit for a variety of reasons. I think most of that benefit isn't because there will be less issue per driver but rather, less cars on the road. And worse of all, in other states that have these restrictions, they often backfire due to huge lines to get your tires checked.

Sure we could invest in RFID and bunch of other complexity. But I think it makes a lot more sense to focus simpler solutions like hiring more snowplow drivers and restricting hazmat trucks during storms.


It is not about that. Its about making the i70 mountain corridor safer for everyone. The problem is multiprong, You got CMVs (18 wheelers), Rental Vehicles, Local Vehicles, Out of State vehicles etc.

Hey I am not saying to restrict traffic all the time, JUST when the conditions are REALLY dangerous which honestly even during the winter do not happen every week.
 

SBrown

So much better than a pro
Skier
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Posts
7,847
Location
Colorado
In other I-70 news, Glenwood Canyon is closed again for rockfall. We need an alternate route.

Mike

It was only closed for a little bit. I breezed through this afternoon, WB. But yeah, your point is taken.
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
13,552
Location
Great White North
Geez, the province of Quebec has mandatory snow tire laws. Ontario may be next. Colorado doesn't?
I think that's more motivated by insurance companies... Dunno what the insurance is like in Colorado..maybe it's fairly cheap and they don't care..
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,490
Location
Colorado
Geez, the province of Quebec has mandatory snow tire laws. Ontario may be next. Colorado doesn't?

The problems are quite different. It would be absurd to make snow tires mandatory statewide.

I'm assuming Ontario is somewhat like Minnesota. There you have long stretches of time--months--where the roads are potentially snow covered and icey. Snow falls and it sticks around for a long time. And it covers a large percentage of the province.

In the Front Range of Co, where approximately 85-90% of the residents of the state reside, there are only a handful of days in an average year that merit snow tires. Most commonly, snow covered roads only last a few days at worst. It isn't uncommon to have patio weather days in Jan or Feb.

The need for snow tires in CO is isolated to traveling in the mountains. The problem of I70 is a problem of a mild-climate metropolis suddenly entering a high mountain world and its massively different conditions within an hour.
 

SBrown

So much better than a pro
Skier
Contributor
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 8, 2015
Posts
7,847
Location
Colorado
...
The need for snow tires in CO is isolated to traveling in the mountains. The problem of I70 is a problem of a mild-climate metropolis suddenly entering a high mountain world and its massively different conditions within an hour.

And then exiting them into sunny dry roads 10 minutes later...
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,220
Location
Boston Suburbs
The problem of I70 is a problem of a mild-climate metropolis suddenly entering a high mountain world and its massively different conditions within an hour.
Very true.
When I was there at couple weeks ago, it was sunny and in the 70's at the Denver airport. About an hour later, it was snowing like crazy on Berthould Pass.
 

sbooker

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
256
Advice related to topic needed from knowledgeable locals please.
At the end of next Feb I will be visiting Aspen from Australia as part of a multi hill ski trip.
I can either fly from SLC to Denver and then hire a car to drive to Aspen and then drive back to Denver from Aspen for my flight home through LAX OR fly direct to Aspen from SLC to Aspen and direct from Aspen to LAX to get home.
The cost to fly into and out of Aspen (when considering car hire) will be just a bit more but I'm weighing up two things. Firstly I would be distraught if the flight into Aspen was delayed/diverted due to snow/wind and I missed a day of skiing (we'll only be skiing 4 days in Aspen). Secondly I don't want to be involved in a wreck on I70.

*The first part of the trip will be from Salt Lake to Jackson and Big Sky so I'll likely have had recent experience driving on winter roads. I have had several previous trips driving on winter roads but I'm by no means an expert in this regard. I have never driven on the i70 past Glenwood Springs (coming from the west). I will be in a 4x4 SUV rental if I drive in and out of Denver.

**I totally understand many of you are thinking - "just stay in Utah and ski there". We are bringing friends from Australia and we really want to show them Aspen as they consider it a 'bucket list' destination. So the Aspen bit is non negotiable. (Neither is Alta, Snowbird, Jackson and Big Sky).:D
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,220
Location
Boston Suburbs
Thanks. My instinct says that too but apparently Aspen airport has major issues in winter?

Well, I've been to Aspen twice and flown into Aspen both times with no issues.
My impression is that the airlines with frequent short-hop service from Denver cancel more often, and I am suspicious that some of these are really done to combine partially full flights. The less-frequent service from more distant airports (my experience is the American Airlines regional jet partner company from Dallas) may have multi-hour delays, but eventually they go.

If you want to drill down to actual numbers, there are statistics for that. Good luck wrestling the website to the ground to get winter-only stats, but here are the full-year numbers (about 2 or 3% cancellation).

Here are the Dallas to Aspen stats for Jan 01, 2019 through Mar 01, 2019 and the Denver to Aspen stats for the same time period:
(uploaded the wrong screen shot originally, correct ones in next post)
 

Attachments

  • aspen.PNG
    aspen.PNG
    557.1 KB · Views: 4
Last edited:

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,220
Location
Boston Suburbs
Dallas Jan and Feb 2019:
a1.PNG

Denver to Aspen, same time
a2.PNG

Apparently OO carrier code is SkyWest. No idea why they are being called out separately.

Last time I was there, we actually took the free inter-mountain bus from our condo (5 minute walk to station) to the airport! Previously I had used the hotel shuttle or a taxi.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Andy Mink
    Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Top