tball

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And now back to tire recommendations.....
Did you find tires?

My wife's MDX runs 235/65R17. Very happy with both Michelin Premier and X-ice 2's, but would surely get the CrossClimate @pais alto recommended if we only had one set. The CrossClimate is 3PMS and actually rated all-round higher than the Premier's in CR testing.

I know you were thinking AT. Any way you could swap between winter and AT for the best of both worlds?
 

jmeb

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Did you find tires?
...
Getting some mounted tomorrow, then driving to Silverton. So we'll find out. I'm gonna guinea pig the new Cooper AT3 4S for folks here. I talked to a rep at cooper that said it was basically a consolidation of their line to merge the their ATW and their AT3. I have had the AT3s on a van before and was pretty happy with their overall performance. Was also impressed by my buddies ATWs.

They are 3PMSF rated -- although we know there is a wide variety within that range.
 

Chickenmonkey

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Update on my tire journey.

Since I last posted, I went for a BC lap with a friend at Rubicon Peak on the West Shore. On the way down the fairly steep icy road on our way out, my tires held perfectly w/o any slides or lateral movement. Anyway, when we got back to his place I noticed the AT tires on his truck and asked him about it and he said they were fine but that he was thinking of going full winter after how my tires handled the ice on the hill. He usually slides a bit on the way down.

So, I am literally going to ride out the season on my current Ice-Xs. They are still doing fine. I am driving slower than I was before in snowy conditions and they are probably just as good or better than quite a few AT tires in ice.

I’ll check back in in November when it’s really time for tires. Thanks everyone!
 

tball

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^^^ I don't think any AT tires can compare on ice with actual winter tires. My experience is AT tires do well in the snow but not so great on ice.

That's what I saw recently comparing my Michelin AT2's vs. X-ice 2's vs. studded Hakkapalita's. You'll never get stuck (on-road) with the AT2's, and they are great even in super deep snow, but you need at least twice the room to stop on ice.

I slid through an intersection with the AT2's after switching vehicles from the studded Hakka's to the AT2's in my testing. I thought I'd given myself enough extra room to stop at the same icy neighborhood intersection, but I needed 3x the distance to stop. This was on warm wet ice on top of packed snow melting in the morning sun after a hard freeze overnight.

While my Michelin AT2's don't have the mountain snowflake symbol, CR tests them as good or better than a bunch of 3PMS AT tires in their snow and ice ratings. That includes the Falken AT3W, Cooper A/TW, Hankook AT-M, and Yokahama A/T G015.

Mountain snowflake (3PMS) symbol does not mean they are winter tires. It just means they are not horrible in snow and ice like so many other all-season tires.
 

jmeb

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Now have about about 700mi on the new Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S after a trip to Silverton and back.

I'm sure there are better winter tires -- no doubt. But these made it over Red Mountain Pass when it was dumping an inch+ an hour during Wed night. And then over snowpacked roads to/from Silverton Mountain each morning. And over a snowy Monarch pass both ways. Solid, predictable traction. Not studs, but very good.

Plus had very little hit to MPG if any, no noticeable increase in road noise. Certainly a stiffer ride but I expected that going from a touring tire with a load index/range of 102 SL to a AT tire with 108XL.
 

ChrisFromOC

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We put the Nokian WRG4 on my daughter’s Outback in December and so far the results are very good. Noticeable improvement over the WRG3, particularly in 2-6 inches of new snow or packed snow on roads. Time will tell how they hold up over time.
 

Plai

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Finally had some hard packd snow to drive in. I'm definitely drifting, sliding more than hoped for.
The hero snow performance was good. Just the scrapped off glazed is scary even at low (<15mph) speeds. The other time was on narrow highway at maybe 30mph, rounding a curve. Came closer to the guard rail than expected.
Not sure if there's anything reasonably better. FWIW, I'm driving a 2008 4Runner and both instances, the vehicle was relatively unweighted and in 4WD. For those keeping track, these are 1.5yo tires with maybe 10K miles.

Now I feel like taking a snow+ice driving lesson.
Just another update on the Falken AT3 Wildcat. Still not satisfied with the ice performance. Was making a turn from stopped on ice in the intersection. Lost traction under 15mph and slid. Fortunately there was some soft/snow on the far edge of the lane for the tires to gain grip again. I'm wondering why there's even a 3 peak snow flake symbol on the tires. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

I'm 3 years in now and will probably replace before next winter.
 

cantunamunch

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Just another update on the Falken AT3 Wildcat. Still not satisfied with the ice performance. Was making a turn from stopped on ice in the intersection. Lost traction under 15mph and slid. Fortunately there was some soft/snow on the far edge of the lane for the tires to gain grip again. I'm wondering why there's even a 3 peak snow flake symbol on the tires. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

I'm 3 years in now and will probably replace before next winter.
How does your ABS like it? I am specifically asking about repeated strong juddering type action on moderately, not highly slippy surface. Like packed glossy snow or snowplow scrape without grit.

The change in ABS behaviour has been one of the top three advantages of my Contis over the stock Goodyears.
 

Plai

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How does your ABS like it? I am specifically asking about repeated strong juddering type action on moderately, not highly slippy surface. Like packed glossy snow or snowplow scrape without grit.

The change in ABS behaviour has been one of the top three advantages of my Contis over the stock Goodyears.
The ABS didn't engage on the lateral slide. It does engage on forward slides [during low speed tests], but I think it's a little late. I find myself pumping the brakes lightly (mimicing ABS) well before ABS kicks in. With this early manual ABS, much sure footed. As for smoothness, my light touch seems to be smoother than the HW, go figure.
 

tball

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I'm wondering why there's even a 3 peak snow flake symbol on the tires. Maybe I'm expecting too much.
The 3 peak snowflake symbol doesn't mean much on tires that can be run all year like all-terrain and all-weather tires.

The Outside Magazine article referenced above has the best description I've seen of what the 3PMS means and how much better true winter tires will perform:

There is much nuance in tire design, and you can’t rely on only the 3PMSF to tell you if a tire is going to be good in the snow. “The requisite test to qualify for the 3PMSF mark is a spin test (ASTM E1136-14) that measures acceleration traction in medium-packed snow only,” says Rogers. “In that regard, [tires with it] guarantee a minimum level of traction in that very specific scenario. The 3PMSF mark makes no guarantee of braking or cornering traction in snow, and there is no ice component of the test.”
To achieve the 3PMSF, a tire must only demonstrate a ten percent advantage in acceleration on packed snow over a reference all-season tire from the nineties. “Winter tires blow away that minimum threshold, while all-season and all-terrain tires with the mark clear it with relatively little room to spare,” says Rogers.
“When you consider the tire industry and all of its product offerings as a whole, you find lumping all the 3PMSF non-winter tires together really creates a problem for the consumer.” he continues. “As with all things tires, there are differences in personality among all-season tires with 3PMSF. Some are a better than others in the snow. Others focus on wet or wear and ride.”
 

Plai

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The 3PMSF mark makes no guarantee of braking or cornering traction in snow, and there is no ice component of the test.”
To achieve the 3PMSF, a tire must only demonstrate a ten percent advantage in acceleration on packed snow over a reference all-season tire from the nineties. “Winter tires blow away that minimum threshold, while all-season and all-terrain tires with the mark clear it with relatively little room to spare,” says Rogers.
Looks like I'll be driving even slower now. Or hopefully, someone here will find a tire that's all-season and has some actual grip on ice (braking, turning, and accelerating). Don't think I'll splurge for winter tires for only 15 days/season in the snow.
 

cosmoliu

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That's kind of where I am with only 4-6 days, specifically for what now has decreased to an average of 2 trips to Mammoth each year. I had the Continental ExtremeContact DWS6s installed in January just for my trip the weekend before last. And of course found totally dry roads. The parking "lot" where I stay did, however, have glare ice. And I treated it with the healthy respect you mention above.
 

cantunamunch

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Or hopefully, someone here will find a tire that's all-season and has some actual grip on ice (braking, turning, and accelerating). Don't think I'll splurge for winter tires for only 15 days/season in the snow.
If you're talking about tires that are not hybrid AT but rather P-type all-seasons, let's start another thread. @SBrown had a post above that should be in that thread, as well as some of the commentary around it. Vredestein Quatracs and Conti ExtremeContacts/ ControlContacts definitely do not belong in this thread.
 
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