Hybrids - The New Winter Tire

[cantunamunch]

Thank you. And sorry for the drift.

No drift, you're keeping the thread on point. Let us know what conclusions you come to.

 

[firebanex]

In part thanks to this thread (and my Dads advice on tires) I got a set of Nokian Hakkapilitta r3 tires for my Subaru Baja for the coming winter. I've never really chosen my own tires before so this thread was quite helpful in finding some suggestions beyond the popular local choice of Blizzaks. Considering I've made it through quite a few winters with some very questionable and inexpensive tires recently, I'm looking forward to a less scary drive this winter.

 

[TexasStout]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

We'll only be in CO a few weeks this winter, and those weeks spread out over several months, with most of our local driving being at 6700 ft where there usually isn't much snow. They keep the roads plowed pretty well. Probably the only times we'll need the snow tires will be on less than a dozen day trips to Breck or Vail.

 

[Ken_R]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

We'll only be in CO a few weeks this winter, and those weeks spread out over several months, with most of our local driving being at 6700 ft where there usually isn't much snow. They keep the roads plowed pretty well. Probably the only times we'll need the snow tires will be on less than a dozen day trips to Breck or Vail.

Most of the time you do not need snow tires here in Denver, Colorado. BUT when you do, you REALLY need them. If you do not have snow tires just be aware that you might HAVE to wait for conditions to improve before driving up to the ski resorts. Specially to Vail. Vail pass can get downright nasty and dangerous.

 

[Monique]

On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

For most AWD vehicles, manufacturers warn about damage from running tires of different sizes. I can't speak to tolerances, but it's probably worth investigating before damaging your vehicle or, I dunno, voiding warranty on your drivetrain or whatever.

 

[Philpug]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

I will answer your question with a question, how important is steering to you?

 

[Tom K.]

On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather?

I'd go with that being a poor idea.

It just seems like it would let the fronts plow instead of steering in snow, while the "big traction" rears helped push those plowing fronts straight into the ditch.

 

[Scruffy]

Most of the time you do not need snow tires here in Denver, Colorado. BUT when you do, you REALLY need them. If you do not have snow tires just be aware that you might HAVE to wait for conditions to improve before driving up to the ski resorts. Specially to Vail. Vail pass can get downright nasty and dangerous.

Exactly! I've been in it in Denver and in the North East. Being prepared is prudent. Experience is the teacher.

 

[Philpug]

Personally you couldn't pay me to drive a 60k tire on any of my vehicles which are all used in a sporting manner.

I am not looking at driving this car in a sporting manner.

This is true. However, the specifics are changing. Compounds (namely the introduction of silicia mixtures) are getting less temperature sensitive than they were 10 years ago. While you can't get all the performance you would from a true summer tire, the trade offs are not as significant as they used to be.

This. We are seeing many more, and significantly better, all weather tires than the all-season (or no season) that we have had in the past.

 

[oldschoolskier]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

We'll only be in CO a few weeks this winter, and those weeks spread out over several months, with most of our local driving being at 6700 ft where there usually isn't much snow. They keep the roads plowed pretty well. Probably the only times we'll need the snow tires will be on less than a dozen day trips to Breck or Vail.

AWD means you get “ideally” equal traction from all 4 wheels (and you paid extra for that), why would you intentially screw that up by mismatching tires.

It’s sorta like shooting youself in the foot TEXAS style with a 50BMG.

 

[François Pugh]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

We'll only be in CO a few weeks this winter, and those weeks spread out over several months, with most of our local driving being at 6700 ft where there usually isn't much snow. They keep the roads plowed pretty well. Probably the only times we'll need the snow tires will be on less than a dozen day trips to Breck or Vail.

From the driver's seat you would have to put up with serious understeer.
From the mechanical view you would be overworking whatever transfer mechanism that would be constantly working to send power to the wheels that have the better traction, and probably wear out a lot of expensive parts in short order if you did drive any distance on very slippery roads.

I think you would be better off with 4 all-weather tires than 2 snow tires and 2 something else tires.

 

[ScotsSkier]

From the driver's seat you would have to put up with serious understeer.
From the mechanical view you would be overworking whatever transfer mechanism that would be constantly working to send power to the wheels that have the better traction, and probably wear out a lot of expensive parts in short order if you did drive any distance on very slippery roads.

I think you would be better off with 4 all-weather tires than 2 snow tires and 2 something else tires.

THIS...

 

[Monique]

Since it's a tire thread ...

Last night, I had my wheels swapped, so I'm on X-Ice rather than the stock Outback tires. The difference is profound. Driving home on wet (not icy) roads with the X-Ices, even at slow speeds, I immediately realized I was braking too abruptly because the tire grip is so much better. The stock tires are bullshit.

 

[cantunamunch]

The stock tires are bullshit.

Ayup.

 

[nay]

So here’s my latest hybrid choice...not really a hybrid by traditional standards.

View attachment 51794

But this is a really soft compound and the tread design is an exaggerated version of a common hybrid design. Cooper is calling it an “extreme all-season”.

Tires like this rely more on grooving than siping and it is about contact patch and the ability of the tire to press snow into a tread print.

The grooves have already opened up. New vs. 3k miles.

View attachment 51796


View attachment 51798

I was driving in minor street flooding the other day and it was like the water wasn’t even there. That’s fun, but the better tests won’t be in liquid state .

I’m in SoCal and missing first driving tests of the season for my STT Pro, but my son bought them for his Taco and texted me that they did great on ice.

I’ll withhold judgment since spending hard earned cash has a bias effect , especially for 18 year olds.

 

[nay]

I am too old to be changing wheels DIY. Did consider wheels, but those are harder to store and really expensive.

bump on the question of is a hybrid a good replacement and, if so, which one?

Yes. The hybrids of today are better than the snow tires of yesteryear wihout giving up dry or wet pavement performance (for normal driving).

The BFG ko2 is an unbelievably versatile tire with excellent tread life. There are other really good options - what vehicle will wear them?

 

[luliski]

Since it's a tire thread ...

Last night, I had my wheels swapped, so I'm on X-Ice rather than the stock Outback tires. The difference is profound. Driving home on wet (not icy) roads with the X-Ices, even at slow speeds, I immediately realized I was braking too abruptly because the tire grip is so much better. The stock tires are bullshit.

So how are they for"wet braking?" I'm thinking about getting these, but Consumer Reports gives them, and almost every snow/winter tire they tested, a very poor rating for wet braking. I'm concerned because usually if it's snowing in Tahoe, it's raining where I live. So roughly half of my drive would be in snow, half in rain.

 

[Andy Mink]

This may sound like a dumb question, to likely be answered by the question "Why would anyone do that?" but anyway here it is: On an AWD vehicle, would it provide benefit having only two snow tires, probably mounted in the back, with the other two tires being all weather? yes, I'm being cheap.

We'll only be in CO a few weeks this winter, and those weeks spread out over several months, with most of our local driving being at 6700 ft where there usually isn't much snow. They keep the roads plowed pretty well. Probably the only times we'll need the snow tires will be on less than a dozen day trips to Breck or Vail.

Most likely, a tire shop will not put different tires on the front and rear of an AWD vehicle, regardless of the AWD system. Liability, liability, liability.

 

[Monique]

So how are they for"wet braking?" I'm thinking about getting these, but Consumer Reports gives them, and almost every snow/winter tire they tested, a very poor rating for wet braking. I'm concerned because usually if it's snowing in Tahoe, it's raining where I live. So roughly half of my drive would be in snow, half in rain.

Well, like I said, the road was wet when I drove home. Not pouring rain, just wet from snow all day - the kind of snow that doesn't quite stick or freeze. Same this morning, but maybe a little less wet. I've had X-Ices for years, always been happy, but I didn't do a ton of research myself, nor test a bunch of different tires.

 

[luliski]

Well, like I said, the road was wet when I drove home. Not pouring rain, just wet from snow all day - the kind of snow that doesn't quite stick or freeze. Same this morning, but maybe a little less wet. I've had X-Ices for years, always been happy, but I didn't do a ton of research myself, nor test a bunch of different tires.

Ok, thanks. I've never driven winter/snow tires. I got Nokian WRGs for my Impreza this past spring after some scary incidents on icy roads. My daughter has that car now. I have the 2002 Honda CRV. It's AWD, and I've always just had all-season tires on it. I've never had problems with it in the snow. But the tires need to be replaced before winter. I wanted to get the WRGs for this car too, but they're so expensive. I don't know how much past next May (when my daughter's last tuition payment is due-yay) I'll keep the CRV. So I thought I might get the XIces, which have good reviews for snow and ice (everything except wet braking I think), and are much cheaper, and then reevaluate in the spring. I would probably just leave them on all year, if I keep the car past May.