Hybrids - The New Winter Tire

[firebanex]

For me, if I need an ice tire then I am running studs no exceptions. The most basic cheap China brand knockoff studded tire with pre installed studs performs at the same level as the highest performing studless on wet ice.

I've been tempted to get studded tires, they just wear out so quickly. Coworker only buys studded tires and runs them for two seasons, then gets them de studded and they become the summer tire set. Perhaps that's the way to do it.

 

[nay]

I've been tempted to get studded tires, they just wear out so quickly. Coworker only buys studded tires and runs them for two seasons, then gets them de studded and they become the summer tire set. Perhaps that's the way to do it.

I’ve had good luck with modern retractable studs - if you are using two sets of tires anyway it seems pointless to believe that studless tires are fine on truly icy roads but the 3PMSF are somehow deficient when you aren’t actually choosing the one technology that bites on wet ice.

Obviously there are use cases for “sliding a shorter distance”, but the idea largely is to not be sliding and that’s studs. Assuming again that wet ice on steep grades is a use case - I’m almost universally more likely to be dealing with soapy snow on a high pass and a hybrid tire deals with that a lot better than a highly siped tire (much like slush).

I say this when there are a set of studless Blizzaks on the Ascent, because ms nay is more confident with them, but I’ve yet to think they offer much over the Falken Wildpeak AT Trail. I certainly wouldn’t bother when the Falken is so damn good (again…snow use case…continental climate ice…).

 

[nay]

The 3PMSF system is different from the US vs the EU. US is just acceleration traction increase over the reference tire. The EU looks at braking performance increase over the reference tire. In both cases, there are no "degrees" of better over the reference tire, unlike the UTQG rating system. The average US consumer who is just learning about 3PMSF will think a AT tire with 3PMSF on the sidewall is just as good as a (going on the extreme end), a winter-studded truck tire in the snow and packed snow conditions.

The choice to advertise the 3PMSF is the discretion of the tire manufacturer.

Video below shows that Michelin Defender LTX bests many of the 3PMSF AT tires, without the 3PMSF designation.
View attachment 234060
View attachment 234057


View attachment 234058

View attachment 234059

Michelin could rate the LTX as 3PMSF, but like most manufacturers doesn’t want to confuse the product line. Generally speaking, the manufacturers are careful to not use 3PMSF for tires that don’t have good snow performance.

These tests would become more relevant if they incorporated more serious 3D snow since 2D snow (following snowplows) isn’t particularly difficult. We all enjoy videos of people sliding around in Tahoe, the first cardinal sin of winter traction is failing to be able to ascend hills. I have posted vids in this thread not too far back of my old Nissan minivan with studless snows and traction control haplessly spinning on cold ice on about a 3% grade and then my 1995 Land Cruiser on Interco Trxus MT tires walking circles around it with zero slip. That’s not apples to apples but it is fruit.

I have nothing against studless winter tires, I’ve just been disappointed every time I’ve chosen to use them in real world situations. You expect this big performance headroom, and like the Blizzaks vs. Wildpeak AT Trail on our Ascent, the winter tire feels vague in many typical winter conditions and it’s a big step down on dry highway at 80 mph where the car becomes floaty and mushy.

I don’t drive the Ascent much and was driving it the other day, wondering what had happened to the handling, and then I remembered it had the Blizzaks. Which was reassuring that at least something else wasn’t wrong with the car.