How will Skiing be Different in the '20-'21 Season?

[Bill Miles]

Not at all a lawyer here... so IANAL... but I'd think "unlimited days" would actually mean "unlimited days that we are open for skiing". Because already it's only unlimited when there's snow. If they don't open until January in a bad year, I'd guess they would not be responsible. And I'd think they'd do some CYA on the terms and conditions to cover that, and other eventualities. But as mentioned above it probably depends on the fine print.

I am asking about when they are open but restricted. They do have provisions for not being open, but no refund if you have skied 21 days. I cannot find any fine print that addresses this. The season pass agreement addresses the usual liability issues but not this.

 

[David Chaus]

I hope skiing next year is different than it is today. No luck getting a reservation at Crystal for tomorrow.
I have no idea how many people they allow per day on the slopes, or how many each hour to upload on the Gondola, but it isn't nearly enough to be able to count on skiing.
If you can't reliably predict that you can get a time slot to ski, you stop planning to ski. And that is the real threat to the industry.

 

[fatbob]

I think there was a way to open the windows some last time I rode one. Maybe just remove ALL the windows for now?

Yeah it's been tried in Chamonix

Man falls to his death from bubble lift in Chamonix

www.seechamonix.com

 

[geepers]

AIUI the problem in Australia has always been demand outstripping supply given how few ski hills there are and environmental constraints (both the climate and development restrictions).

Absolutely.

Mt Buller opened June 1st. Edit: I was corrected below. Mt Buller plans to open June 22.

Mt Buller - We are OPEN

What a weekend!

www.mtbuller.com.au

From their site
They extended the early bird pricing for season memberships to help people feel good about committing to a season of skiing.
COVID-19 AND 2020 MT BULLER SEASON MEMBERSHIP & RESORT ENTRY SEASON PASSES
We know it’s a tough time to commit to your winter plans at the moment, so we’ve decided to extend our Lazy Bird Season Membership pricing until the 31 May 2020.

While we all hope to enjoy time on the slopes this winter, we have developed a COVID-19 refund policy to give our valued Mt Buller season members and Mt Buller & Mt Stirling resort entry season pass holders peace of mind if this cannot happen. Read the policy here.

Doh, that is from 2019, but I did see an opening for Buller for 2020. Looks like they plan on opeing June 22.

Mt Buller - Green light for season

Start planning -> New limits and pre-booking is essential this winter. Get the details here.

www.mtbuller.com.au

Attempting to buy passes from the Mt Buller atm gets this msg. (Cannot even attempt to buy season passes.)

Mt Buller were the 1st out of the gate to announce their opening date of 22 June. From their covid19 page Q&A:

I want to ski and snowboard this winter. Will Mt Buller and Mt Stirling be open for 2020? ​

Following the government announcement on 24 May Mt Buller and Mt Stirling are working to a target opening date of 22 June, 2020. We are a very agile industry well adapted to the uncertainty of snow seasons, and are working on the detailed plans to open the resort in accordance with the government guidelines around coronavirus (COVID-19).​

​

We will need to limit guest volumes in resort to maintain physical distancing, there will be rigid cleaning and sanitation protocols in place, our international staff will sadly not be travelling to work with us this year and our local mountain staff numbers reduced. This means that the full range of products and services normally associated with the alpine resorts will not be available in 2020. We are currently working, in consultation with government and health authorities and others to finalise our COVID-19 Operating Safely Plans and once these are finalised we will share more details.​

However since that announcement there's been no useful details and passes remain unpurchaseable.

The official date for the opening of the Australian ski season is 1st weekend in June where Monday is always a public holiday. There's seldom any snow so it's mostly a party weekend.

 

[dbostedo]

Yeah it's been tried in Chamonix

Man falls to his death from bubble lift in Chamonix

www.seechamonix.com

So "bubble lift" here in the US must mean something different. (Here it mean a chair lift with a see-through bubble that comes down.) I assume this was a gondola or cable car of some sort?

In any case, that incident doesn't really say anything about whether or not it would make sense to remove gondola windows, any more than any other chair lift accident seems to affect the safety bar rules/usage in most places.

 

[geepers]

At my local mountain, $500/day for a lift ticket= 0 skiers/day. Even $200/day would cause the local population of 90K in Kamloops, B.C. (5-6K are skiers) to give up skiing.

Most of the customers for Cat And Heli operations in B.C. are Americans. A day rate (no lodging) for Cat skiing is around $500CDN and most Canadians are not wealthy enough to partake.

Ski resort: "Sorry for the reservation system, the limited food & beverage, and all the hoops that you now have to jump thru, and oh, no season pass sales and a 20% increase in day ticket" (as per Thredbo pricing example)

Local Kamloops B.C. skiers: "Sorry, see you in 2022".

Kamloops is the Cheapskate Capital of Canada so it is easy to predict the typical Kamloops skier's reaction. I suspect that the most but not all of rest of B.C. will have a similar reaction.

Thredbo's opening and subsequent on going operations will be closely watched by the ski industry, world wide.

Email from Big White this morning... New season pass pricing looks fine. Early bird Adult C$759. Plus a 20% rebate for all 2019/20 season pass holders for closing early.

Sun Peaks, Big White, Silver Star, Revelstoke are not close to large population centers.

 

[markojp]

I think there was a way to open the windows some last time I rode one. Maybe just remove ALL the windows for now?

You understand this isn't really possible, no?

 

[dbostedo]

You understand this isn't really possible, no?

Why not? I'd assume the windows are replaceable in case of breakage or other maintenance needs. Why couldn't they be removed? I don't think they're a single unit with the body (at least not that I can think of - but I don't ride a gondola all that often).

Of course, it would depend on how big they are and what they do to the structure/rigidity of the cabin and safety. But I'd think it could be done.

 

[Tricia]

Absolutely.




Attempting to buy passes from the Mt Buller atm gets this msg. (Cannot even attempt to buy season passes.)

View attachment 103782

Mt Buller were the 1st out of the gate to announce their opening date of 22 June. From their covid19 page Q&A:

I want to ski and snowboard this winter. Will Mt Buller and Mt Stirling be open for 2020? ​

Following the government announcement on 24 May Mt Buller and Mt Stirling are working to a target opening date of 22 June, 2020. We are a very agile industry well adapted to the uncertainty of snow seasons, and are working on the detailed plans to open the resort in accordance with the government guidelines around coronavirus (COVID-19).​

​

We will need to limit guest volumes in resort to maintain physical distancing, there will be rigid cleaning and sanitation protocols in place, our international staff will sadly not be travelling to work with us this year and our local mountain staff numbers reduced. This means that the full range of products and services normally associated with the alpine resorts will not be available in 2020. We are currently working, in consultation with government and health authorities and others to finalise our COVID-19 Operating Safely Plans and once these are finalised we will share more details.​

However since that announcement there's been no useful details and passes remain unpurchaseable.

The official date for the opening of the Australian ski season is 1st weekend in June where Monday is always a public holiday. There's seldom any snow so it's mostly a party weekend.

That's crazy.

 

[Seldomski]

It appears EPIC has added pandemic restrictions as a valid reason for refunds. I though some other resort had actually added "pandemics" to the terms and conditions along with weather, and acts of God etc, excluding them from liability.

Read your fine print..
Here's the latest from EPIC

Epic Coverage Terms and Conditions | Epic Season Pass

www.epicpass.com

I was just looking at this. To summarize, there are two basic flavors of the pass insurance:

1) "Specific Week" - Someone who is buying a pass to use for a particular week of travel (AKA destination skier)
2) "Core" - Someone who is skiing throughout the season (AKA local-ish)

On top of that, you can flag either all resorts or just one resort that triggers the insurance.

This coverage and refund cases become pretty complicated...

 

[karlo]

Back to the original thread topic here: "How will skiing be different next season?" I think its a matter of location, which drives perceptions and in turn decision making. Here in NM, and I suspect southern CO it will be more normal than not.

There’s the answer! I ski in NM this winter!

I think that's a fair call - though you might not want to shout about it too much less you get a lot of destination tourists flying in from more hotspotty places.

Too late. No take backs.

 

[mikel]

Everyone who skis at Copper knows about the “Priority line” on the lift, right? You pay something like $20 extra to skip the line.

Just for clarification $399 or $499 and it is available with some lodging packages.

 

[crgildart]

Yeah it's been tried in Chamonix

Man falls to his death from bubble lift in Chamonix

www.seechamonix.com

More proof that there shouldn't be more than 2 people in a gondola

 

[mdf]

The actual cost of lifts is rarely the dominant cost in a week of skiing. Heck, the parking for my car back at my home airport is a sizeable fraction of what I pay for lifts. So yeah, I'd be willing to pay a lot more for lift tickets than we do now. (Assuming I was willing to travel in the first place, which is a big "if".)

 

[Ski&ride]

I was just looking at this. To summarize, there are two basic flavors of the pass insurance:

1) "Specific Week" - Someone who is buying a pass to use for a particular week of travel (AKA destination skier)
2) "Core" - Someone who is skiing throughout the season (AKA local-ish)

On top of that, you can flag either all resorts or just one resort that triggers the insurance.

This coverage and refund cases become pretty complicated...

But it doesn’t covers if you can get a slot in the lottery!

Not “complicated enough” still.

 

[karlo]

I'd be willing to pay a lot more for lift tickets than we do now. (Assuming I was willing to travel in the first place, which is a big "if".)

Then, the cost of N95 or KN95 masks to wear when traveling shouldn’t be a problem. In fact, get enough to hand out to those around you on a plane.

 

[geepers]

Still no final word on how the Vail owned resorts will be handling the upcoming Australian season. A few clues however...

Can still sign up for an Epic Australian season pass for A$889. Pay $49 up front and the balance to be collected at some point before the resort opens - see next paragraph. There will be capacity restrictions but these aren't detailed yet and there's this bit:

As outlined in a letter sent to pass holders on 19th May 2020, we will not take the final payment for the 2020 Epic Australia Pass until e will share more information about the season ahead as well as new pass options that will address the expected COVID-19 impacts to our season. Once we have shared more information, pass holders will have the option to request a refund of all payments made towards their 2020 Epic Australia Pass and Pass Refund Protection or move forward with a new pass product.​

​

So some changes are coming but they aren't saying much atm.

Seems to be a low risk bet to pay a $49 refundable option to buy a pass before the start of the season. If these "new pass products" turn out to be unpalatable then no need to proceed.

Personally I prefer the better terrain and vertical at Thredbo however it's looking like a too expensive option for this season.

 

[geepers]

Thinking about the Australian situation some more...

Thredbo has laid its cards on the table early. They have decided to provide only limited priority to season pass holders (some discounts on day passes early/late season) and are betting that customer loyalty to their resort will be enough to maximise whatever return they get for the season.

We'll know if that strategy is working by 11 June, the morning after passes go online. If they are largely sold out throughout the season it will have been a good call.

Vail are holding off. So far they seem to be prioriting season pass holders over casual buyers. Which has been a large part of their corporate strategy overall. They have not committed to showing their cards for Australia until 15 June. By the 15th they'll know if Thredbo day passes are selling well and then the "new pass products" at the Australian Vail resorts will include something like a non-trivial supplementary fee "to reserve your spot for the day". If Thredbo is selling poorly then they'll be more conservative and have a chance to pick up customers from Thredbo. In the case of Perisher with its spread layout and large number of lifts they can handle more riders - at least mid-week.

 

[fatbob]

Is this whole social distancing thing overblown anyway? From what I see on the news of marches, policing etc and even shopping being reopened there is barely lipservice being paid in many parts of the US to distancing. What would be the harm in resorts offering a waiver that customers accept any risk associated with proximity to others as part of their use of the resort (harder perhaps for employees)?

 

[Steve]

Is this whole social distancing thing overblown anyway? From what I see on the news of marches, policing etc and even shopping being reopened there is barely lipservice being paid in many parts of the US to distancing. What would be the harm in resorts offering a waiver that customers accept any risk associated with proximity to others as part of their use of the resort (harder perhaps for employees)?

In the absence of legal guidance, that could just be put on the lift tickets like all other limits of liability are.