How will Skiing be Different in the '20-'21 Season?

[Ron]

May have missed a discussion on this....

Has anyone discussed the impact of physical distancing on the availability of indoor seating space and sheltering?

The Oz resorts have all indicated reductions and are encouraging BYO food, picnic outside. We mostly have mild conditions however it was concerning enough for my wife that we booked on snow accom to guarantee a place for her to rest up if needed.

In USA or Canada conditions can be far harsher. To the point where shelter and warmth are not optional. Frost nip, frost bite, hypothermia. And then there's the kids "Daddy, I'm cold." In some places it's not practical to return to the car without packing it in for the day.

Any concerns?

there will be for sure especially during peak times. These issues are also part of the big unknowns.

 

[Paul Lutes]

May have missed a discussion on this....

Has anyone discussed the impact of physical distancing on the availability of indoor seating space and sheltering?

The Oz resorts have all indicated reductions and are encouraging BYO food, picnic outside. We mostly have mild conditions however it was concerning enough for my wife that we booked on snow accom to guarantee a place for her to rest up if needed.

In USA or Canada conditions can be far harsher. To the point where shelter and warmth are not optional. Frost nip, frost bite, hypothermia. And then there's the kids "Daddy, I'm cold." In some places it's not practical to return to the car without packing it in for the day.

Any concerns?

Major concerns. I'm actually becoming more convinced that this is where the greatest impact on skiing will be felt. Work-arounds on the slope and lifts can be managed relatively more easily than at the base facilities.

 

[crgildart]

there will be for sure especially during peak times. These issues are also part of the big unknowns.

Major concerns. I'm actually becoming more convinced that this is where the greatest impact on skiing will be felt. Work-arounds on the slope and lifts can be managed relatively more easily than at the base facilities.

I think we're going to see a lot more people booting up at the car.. not necessarily by choice. Rental shop especially will need more room to spread out the customers putting boots on and taking boots off. The "no brown bag, paid food customers only" may be accompanied with some kind of sinage designating more loge areas as rental customer use only areas.

 

[Ski&ride]

Local dirtbag skiers are probably the least affected. Drive in, ski till the legs quit, drive home. (Or add a brown bag lunch in the car to recharge for a second wind). Fewer people on the hill would mean better snow condition and more room to blast back to the lift.

(as long as they get through the lottery part).

Major concerns. I'm actually becoming more convinced that this is where the greatest impact on skiing will be felt. Work-arounds on the slope and lifts can be managed relatively more easily than at the base facilities.

Agree. The impact would be more on the “holiday” part of the skiing holiday more than the skiing itself.

 

[Steve]

In my mind it comes down to how many ski areas are willing and able to run at a loss for a season. I can't see them making money without destination travelers, food and beverage sales, and reduced skier visits.

They can figure out ways to operate, but it will be at a loss, unless they stop grooming and making snow. Snow making is the biggest expense as I understand it, more than running lifts -- although I could be mistaken.

 

[crgildart]

In my mind it comes down to how many ski areas are willing and able to run at a loss for a season. I can't see them making money without destination travelers, food and beverage sales, and reduced skier visits.

They can figure out ways to operate, but it will be at a loss, unless they stop grooming and making snow. Snow making is the biggest expense as I understand it, more than running lifts -- although I could be mistaken.

If they have to limit access to fewer skiers per day, they will have to either find ways to generate/pull in more revenues per skier visit or operate at a loss.

 

[Ski&ride]

In my mind it comes down to how many ski areas are willing and able to run at a loss for a season. I can't see them making money without destination travelers, food and beverage sales, and reduced skier visits.

They can figure out ways to operate, but it will be at a loss, unless they stop grooming and making snow. Snow making is the biggest expense as I understand it, more than running lifts -- although I could be mistaken.

What kind of “destination resort” do you have in mind that needs massive snowmaking?

Mountains near me need snowmaking to have a season. But they’re not “destination” resorts.

A lot of the mega resorts in the northeast DO make a lot of snow. But I’m not entirely sure they “NEED” to make snow to have a decent season.

If they have to limit access to fewer skiers per day, they will have to either find ways to generate/pull in more revenues per skier visit or operate at a loss.

I would think many mountains can operate at a loss for a year. Obviously not year after year after year...

 

[dbostedo]

But I’m not entirely sure they “NEED” to make snow to have a decent season.

I think that depends on the season. If it's rainy, or low on snowfall, I think they do really depend on man-made.

 

[Steve]

For one example I recall a long article on Aspen’s massive snowmaking efforts early season and climate change is making this more of an issue.

Without early season base building things will be very sketchy unless it snows a lot.

Snowmaking is crucial.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Felt need for physical distancing inside the lodge will have a big impact on local family visits for Saturdays and Sundays. Will families that would have been skiing on weekends, and would have been taking advantage of kids' programs, still come? Those people typically buy season passes for each family member. What will the loss of that revenue, plus the food not bought, mean for the mountain's bottom line?

How about families with older children that come every Saturday to ski? They will still have to negotiate the bathroom lines and the bottlenecks inside the lodge. What if those parents decide to pass on the season because of the virus cases escalating?

If those two groups of loyal locals are seriously decimated next season, will your mountain still be able to run at a profit or break even?

Then there are the senior citizen groups that come Mon-Fri to boot up together in the lodge, ski together for a couple of hours, and take a coffee break together mid-morning before skiing another hour and going home. If those elderly but dependably present groups decide to take a season off because they can't get vaccinated yet, and because they can't even reliably get day tickets in the lottery, will your mountain still be able to run at a profit or break even?

 

[Wilhelmson]

People are already starting to do everything else, if they ever stopped at all. I forgot my bathing suit so tried to buy one at tj max on cape cod. There were about 20 people in line for checkout so i left. Why would skiing be so different? The usual busy spots - Loon et al will be as busy as limited capacity permits unless there is another hard quarantine.

 

[Bill Miles]

What kind of “destination resort” do you have in mind that needs massive snowmaking?

Mountains near me need snowmaking to have a season. But they’re not “destination” resorts.

A lot of the mega resorts in the northeast DO make a lot of snow. But I’m not entirely sure they “NEED” to make snow to have a decent season.


I would think many mountains can operate at a loss for a year. Obviously not year after year after year...

Sun Valley needs snowmaking, at least until January and maybe longer, depending on the year.

 

[Wendy]

Not since June 1.

How was that enforced?

 

[Wendy]

Local dirtbag skiers are probably the least affected. Drive in, ski till the legs quit, drive home. (Or add a brown bag lunch in the car to recharge for a second wind). Fewer people on the hill would mean better snow condition and more room to blast back to the lift.

(as long as they get through the lottery part).


Agree. The impact would be more on the “holiday” part of the skiing holiday more than the skiing itself.

Next year I plan to be a “local dirt bag skier.” I wonder how many people will take up tailgating?

 

[crazycanuck]

We actually just bought a chalet 800 m from a resort here in the NE, basically because we figure otherwise we might have to write off the season. No way I'm going to the US. And lodge is likely to be highly restricted, so this because out plan. On the flip side with interest rates so low and people needing to sell it was a great time to buy!

 

[Ski&ride]

On the flip side with interest rates so low and people needing to sell it was a great time to buy!

That’s a good move!

I would too except I don’t care THAT much about skiing in the northeast! But...

I’ve been thinking of diving into the bottomless pit of winterized pickup camper on and off for a few years. This may become the year that I pull the trigger.

 

[chopchop]

Local dirtbag skiers are probably the least affected. Drive in, ski till the legs quit, drive home. (Or add a brown bag lunch in the car to recharge for a second wind). Fewer people on the hill would mean better snow condition and more room to blast back to the lift.

That's my plan in 20/21. #EmbraceTheDirtbagInYou

 

[BC.]

Next year I plan to be a “local dirt bag skier.” I wonder how many people will take up tailgating?

Tailgating at Montage at the top of NorthFace is a right of passage.....as was/is at Quad lot at Elk....lol

 

[crgildart]

People are already starting to do everything else, if they ever stopped at all. I forgot my bathing suit so tried to buy one at tj max on cape cod. There were about 20 people in line for checkout so i left. Why would skiing be so different? The usual busy spots - Loon et al will be as busy as limited capacity permits unless there is another hard quarantine.

It really all depends on exactly HOW limited it is. 50% of peak seems pretty sustainable, like an average weekday volume. Lots of disappointed people holiday break and a couple peak weekends. 20% and there will be some serious rage and competition over who gets those spots. And, after missing the last half of March and giving partial refunds on passes they're not exactly sitting pretty to ride out next season on massively reduced revenues.

 

[crgildart]

We actually just bought a chalet 800 m from a resort here in the NE, basically because we figure otherwise we might have to write off the season. No way I'm going to the US. And lodge is likely to be highly restricted, so this because out plan. On the flip side with interest rates so low and people needing to sell it was a great time to buy!

This is the anti dirtbag plan LOL! IF elasticity of demand has anything to say about how the limited lottery lift tickets are priced, I suspect us dirt bags will be very high brow dirtbags..