How will Skiing be Different in the '20-'21 Season?

[fatbob]

I don't think an industry consortium is probably anything other than a talking shop - will they have power to make rules/strong recommendations? And objectively act in the best interests of skiers or the industry itself? State govt controls a lot of the levers - a consortium can only ever be a lobby group really

 

[karlo]

Vail Resorts announced different practices in the Southern Hemisphere. How will this play into our season in the Northern Hemisphere?

Vail Resorts amend Perisher, Falls and Hotham ticket sale process

Vail Resorts Australia have amended the on sale dates and process for lift tickets this week and are now offering staged releases of winter dates.

www.snowsbest.com

They’ve really planned it out. First Stage sale dates? And,

“Passes holders will still need to book in their dates of choice for the time frame June 24 to July 13. They can do this on June 23. After July 13, or as soon as the resorts are able to open adequate terrain and lifts, pass holders have regular access without the need for a reservation“
Nice!

Hope my home is as put together

 

[Wilhelmson]

Link here for Australia.

Overall testing: 1,848,347 tests, 0.4% positive. (Population 26 million)

They used to include a daily test count in the summary. Was in the tens of thousands of tests and the positives had dropped to less than 0.1%.

You must have some very clean people

 

[ForeverSki]

They’ve really planned it out. First Stage sale dates? And,

“Passes holders will still need to book in their dates of choice for the time frame June 24 to July 13. They can do this on June 23. After July 13, or as soon as the resorts are able to open adequate terrain and lifts, pass holders have regular access without the need for a reservation“
Nice!

Hope my home is as put together

The interesting news will come June 24 for Epic Australia... how many pass holders who wanted reservations and did not get any. Or wanted 5 days but got only 2.

Apparently for Thredbo, IKON pass holders have to submit a web request for passes and be notified by email. I’d like to know how successful they are in getting tickets for the dates they want.

 

[pchewn]

I don't think an industry consortium is probably anything other than a talking shop - will they have power to make rules/strong recommendations? And objectively act in the best interests of skiers or the industry itself? State govt controls a lot of the levers - a consortium can only ever be a lobby group really

Benefit of consortium would be legal liability. If they come up with standard set of pandemic practices, then resorts following those practices would be less exposed for lawsuits if/when there is a case at the resort.

 

[crgildart]

Benefit of consortium would be legal liability. If they come up with standard set of pandemic practices, then resorts following those practices would be less exposed for lawsuits if/when there is a case at the resort.

But offset by exposure to antitrust, collusion. price-fixing, etc if they collectively decide to reduce capacity while increasing prices.

 

[geepers]

The interesting news will come June 24 for Epic Australia... how many pass holders who wanted reservations and did not get any. Or wanted 5 days but got only 2.

Apparently for Thredbo, IKON pass holders have to submit a web request for passes and be notified by email. I’d like to know how successful they are in getting tickets for the dates they want.

Those early winter reservations are mostly because there's not enough snow to open the whole mountain. It's generally not very good skiing so demand isn't huge. By 13 July they figure that everything will be open and from then on no reservation required. Although the fine print says the 13 July date is "conditions permitting".

Perisher appear to be limiting day pass sales to stay within number limits. They've already sold out day passes for season opening (always a party week) and had yet to open the Epic pass holder reservation system as far as I know.

Thredbo had massive demand for day passes from non-season pass holders and had sold out except late season last I looked. They reserved a quota of day passes for those who ordered the cancelled season passes and there were lots of those available (again, last I looked).

They’ve really planned it out. First Stage sale dates? And,

“Passes holders will still need to book in their dates of choice for the time frame June 24 to July 13. They can do this on June 23. After July 13, or as soon as the resorts are able to open adequate terrain and lifts, pass holders have regular access without the need for a reservation“
Nice!

Hope my home is as put together

Yep, they learnt from Thredbo to spread the sales out. That 1st 24 hours on the Thredbo site was not a good look.

 

[karlo]

industry consortium

A consortium can engage in pre-competitive collaboration, such as data analysis, software development, developing models by which a resort can collaborate with local businesses

 

[Ron]

But offset by exposure to antitrust, collusion. price-fixing, etc if they collectively decide to reduce capacity while increasing prices.

A consortium can engage in pre-competitive collaboration, such as data analysis, software development, developing models by which a resort can collaborate with local businesses

you have to prove that's the case, As @karlo posted, that would be extremely difficult especially given the supply and demand of a non-essential service. Its like gas stations watching each others prices or any other service for that matter. Keep in Mind in the ski industry, manufacturers regularly keep mandatory pricing levels through MAP pricing. You cant really claim price gouging if capacity is reduced by 50% but prices increase by 50%. Its too early to surmise, I am sure they have several scenarios based on permitted gatherings of people and so forth. they will open, its the devil in the details at this point. The biggest question still unanswered (and we are guessing) is how does a tourist driven resort in the USA decide who gets to ski and who doesn't.

 

[Wilhelmson]

I dont think this is happening with skiing anyways but in general
the corp lawyers know what they are doing. Bigger risk is a leaked email or disgruntled employee/ lover. Surprising how some high level people can act so carelessly .

 

[sbooker]

You must have some very clean people

We have just used our natural advantages well. We're island nations with low population density. We're also relatively 'obedient'* compared to some nations so our social distancing was pretty effective.

*When the federal government took our guns off us in 1996 after the Port Arthur massacre we largely said "ok, whatever". I can't see most of the US population being so placid in the same circumstance.

 

[geepers]

So far covid has not had much impact on actual skiing in Oz... at least at the resorts in New South Wales.

 

[dbostedo]

So far covid has not had much impact on actual skiing in Oz... at least at the resorts in New South Wales.

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How often is it that bare at this point in the season?

 

[crgildart]

Its too early to surmise, I am sure they have several scenarios based on permitted gatherings of people and so forth. they will open, its the devil in the details at this point. The biggest question still unanswered (and we are guessing) is how does a tourist driven resort in the USA decide who gets to ski and who doesn't.

Short of regulation, let the market decide who gets to ski and who doesn't, supply, demand, elasticity of demand.. Find the highest price where purchases match capacity. If sales fall short, lower the price. If tickets sell out but customers with that much disposable income are still out there.. raise the prices more until you find that equilibrium.

 

[geepers]

How often is it that bare at this point in the season?

It varies. Season always officially opened in the 1st weekend in June. Infrequent to have snow these days so it's mostly party time - maybe some man-made if it's been cold.

There's some forecast snow this weekend but expected to be too little to make a difference.

I generally watch that creek on the left in the Perisher cam. when that fills in it's time to go ski. Mid to late July typically.

Without snow making Australian resorts would be....

 

[Bill Miles]

Short of regulation, let the market decide who gets to ski and who doesn't, supply, demand, elasticity of demand.. Find the highest price where purchases match capacity. If sales fall short, lower the price. If tickets sell out but customers with that much disposable income are still out there.. raise the prices more until you find that equilibrium.

So, what about season passholders? The pass webpage for my mountain states unlimited days (the offer). When I buy my pass that will constitute acceptance and consideration. To a non-lawyer, it seems like a valid contract. The fine print does not address restrictions, reservations, lotteries, etc.

 

[Ron]

thats the big question!

 

[crgildart]

So, what about season passholders? The pass webpage for my mountain states unlimited days (the offer). When I buy my pass that will constitute acceptance and consideration. To a non-lawyer, it seems like a valid contract. The fine print does not address restrictions, reservations, lotteries, etc.

I did think I actually saw "pandemic" mentioned in some of the terms and conditions exemptions for at leas one of the pass offerings somewhere.
No doubt they'd have to refund all the passes if they went to the price gouging model. They'd probably offer pass holders either a discount on the high priced limited day tickets or refund the money they paid for the pass.. I think at the least, they'd black out the passes over Christmas Break and President's Day if, in fact, they can only operate at 20%. At 50% who knows. They need the revenues and with ski school, lodge food, rentals all taking even bigger hits, all bets are off on pass holders getting full access every day if there isn't enough capacity left for LOTS of day ticket revenues.

 

[Bill Miles]

I did think I actually saw "pandemic" mentioned in some of the terms and conditions exemptions for at leas one of the pass offerings somewhere.
No doubt they'd have to refund all the passes if they went to the price gouging model. They'd probably offer pass holders either a discount on the high priced limited day tickets or refund the money they paid for the pass.. I think at the least, they'd black out the passes over Christmas Break and President's Day if, in fact, they can only operate at 20%. At 50% who knows. They need the revenues and with ski school, lodge food, rentals all taking even bigger hits, all bets are off on pass holders getting full access every day if there isn't enough capacity left for LOTS of day ticket revenues.

I reread the terms and conditions, which only include an agreement not to sue in the liability waiver. I question if this would be applicable or enforceable in a breach of contract claim. They do have a pass protection program which is quite limited and would appear not to apply to capacity restrictions. it does provide a pro rata refund for complete closure.
With regard to refunds, blackouts, discounts, etc., none of this is in the season pass agreement/contract. A very brief search indicates that force majeure is generally not invokable unless explicitly stated in the contract.
Obviously, I hope no restrictions come about, and think that Sun Valley (with the highest season pass rates in the country and no senior discount) would do the right thing (got a 20% credit for the early end this year), but at the beginning of summer, there is nothing better to do than speculate and think up what ifs.

 

[geepers]

May have missed a discussion on this....

Has anyone discussed the impact of physical distancing on the availability of indoor seating space and sheltering?

The Oz resorts have all indicated reductions and are encouraging BYO food, picnic outside. We mostly have mild conditions however it was concerning enough for my wife that we booked on snow accom to guarantee a place for her to rest up if needed.

In USA or Canada conditions can be far harsher. To the point where shelter and warmth are not optional. Frost nip, frost bite, hypothermia. And then there's the kids "Daddy, I'm cold." In some places it's not practical to return to the car without packing it in for the day.

Any concerns?