How will Skiing be Different in the '20-'21 Season?

[Noodler]

The state guidelines state you cannot be forced to ride with members outside your party. But you may opt to -- as long as gondies are <50% capacity loaded and there is a seat or more between you on lifts (two singles on a quad or triple for instance).

I imagine there will be some social pressure to double up -- hopefully ski areas are very clear that it is optional.

I specifically asked Loveland about how they're going to handle single skiers with their lifts. I was told that they will be loading chairs with a seat between members outside of your party. So 2 singles on a triple, a couple and a single on a quad, etc. This seems to fly in the face of the state guidelines though...

 

[Steve]

I would think that if a skier tells a liftie that they are "at risk" or have a pre-existing condition, or some such wording that they will be able to ride alone.

If there's a long line it might be an issue, but who wants to ski when there's long lines anyway?

 

[James]

Big issue is bubble chairs. Going with unknowns and the bubble down seems bad. Yet winds might make it so you have to keep the bubble down.

If there's a long line it might be an issue, but who wants to ski when there's long lines anyway?

The people in line?

 

[Steve]

Big issue is bubble chairs. Going with unknowns and the bubble down seems bad. Yet winds might make it so you have to keep the bubble down.


The people in line?

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

 

[James]

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded.

Yep. They’re waiting in line till everyone leaves.

 

[jmeb]

I specifically asked Loveland about how they're going to handle single skiers with their lifts. I was told that they will be loading chairs with a seat between members outside of your party. So 2 singles on a triple, a couple and a single on a quad, etc. This seems to fly in the face of the state guidelines though...

That will be the preference -- but you will have the option to opt out. Not everyone at Loveland knows all the SOPs yet. Furthermore -- the website is different than what that Loveland rep told you:

• Chairlift capacities will be decreased as only related parties will be permitted to load together

Also worth observing that when people ask these questions about loading lifts -- people want a very straight forward answer. And there are people who are both upset about loading lifts with others and people upset lifts won't be at full capacity. CS reps / social media managers have a handful to deal with.

Here is the language from the State:

● Ski area guests will not be required to ride on a chairlift or gondola with people
outside of their party. Individuals who are not from the same party may ride a chairlift
together with a minimum of one seat separating the unrelated individuals or parties;
however, ski areas should generally encourage more space between different parties
when possible.
● Gondolas should keep windows open, even in inclement weather. Gondolas should be
limited to no more than two separate parties with adequate spacing, and not more
than 50% capacity if more than one party rides a gondola together (single parties may
reach full capacity). Specific spacing configurations and requirements should be
addressed with the LPHA in the ski area plan. Consider posting reminders of these
requirements within gondola cabins.

 

[Cheizz]

How does France and the Netherlands (or any other European country) enforce the 10 day quarantine?

The Dutch government has no means of enforcing the quarantine. They could of course sample citizens that were reported to have stayed abroad (via local foreign tourist tax data or travel agency data), but they won't. They rely on people to use common sense.
My employer - who does know that I have been to France - can be fined severely when it turns out to be the case that I have been to France, haven't been in Isolation and turn out to test positive for Covid. So my employer will ask me to stay and work from home.

 

[slowrider]

The Dutch government~ rely on people to use common sense.
Sounds like a nice place.

 

[James]

The Dutch government~ rely on people to use common sense.
Sounds like a nice place.

I’ve heard you get fined for kids missing school with no good reason. Going to the Alps isn’t a good reason. @Cheizz , true?

 

[ski otter 2]

The state guidelines state you cannot be forced to ride with members outside your party. But you may opt to -- as long as gondies are <50% capacity loaded and there is a seat or more between you on lifts (two singles on a quad or triple for instance).

I imagine there will be some social pressure to double up -- hopefully ski areas are very clear that it is optional.

This is not what the Alterra folks are saying. They are saying explicitly and repeatedly you cannot be forced to double up on lifts except on high capacity lifts and gondolas, at their own areas (rather than more loosely affiliated areas, which have their own policies). At the areas I go to, Copper and Winter Park heads have said explicitly the above rather than what you have stated, while also saying the final procedures have yet to be finalized.

 

[ski otter 2]

I specifically asked Loveland about how they're going to handle single skiers with their lifts. I was told that they will be loading chairs with a seat between members outside of your party. So 2 singles on a triple, a couple and a single on a quad, etc. This seems to fly in the face of the state guidelines though...

This is what I feared from them, with their conflicting and incoherent response to uphill access at the end of last season. If this is their policy, I won't be able to ski there. Period. And a joke, in terms of social distancing.

 

[Cheizz]

I’ve heard you get fined for kids missing school with no good reason. Going to the Alps isn’t a good reason. @Cheizz , true?

It is true that if you take your kids out of school without permission (outside school holidays, or when they're sick obviously), you can get a fine. You won't get one automatically, but on many last fridays before school holidays, the inspection does visit families where kids are 'suspiciously' sick so the family can get to the mountains a day earlier to avoid traffic. It happens, but it's really rare.
And in the Netherlands, only about 1.1 million people (out of 17 million) go skiing or snowboarding. That's only 15% of the population. So no, going skiing is not a good enough reason to miss school, I guess...

 

[jmeb]

This is not what the Alterra folks are saying. They are saying explicitly and repeatedly you cannot be forced to double up on lifts except on high capacity lifts and gondolas, at their own areas (rather than more loosely affiliated areas, which have their own policies). At the areas I go to, Copper and Winter Park heads have said explicitly the above rather than what you have stated, while also saying the final procedures have yet to be finalized.

This is what I feared from them, with their conflicting and incoherent response to uphill access at the end of last season. If this is their policy, I won't be able to ski there. Period. And a joke, in terms of social distancing.

Worth keeping in mind the State guidance re lifts was only released in draft form this week.

like the uphill access issue things are changing daily and areas are having to switch practices midstream near daily. Loveland tried to keep their typical post season uphill access (closed parking area but open terrain)—but CDOT and FS didn’t approve of radically different user behaviors last year.

in short—how will skiing be different this year? The policies and practices of most hills will change frequently — often with limited notice as areas react to new guidance/regulations, as they learn more about operating their particular area during a global pandemic, as local case rates change, as we learn more about the virus and skier behavior changes. There will be more surprising changes, you may arrive at the hill and things are different than the week before without a media blitz to let you know. This is the year of uncertainty and change. Understandable if some feel for their own health it is best just to opt out,

Not meaning to be a total apologist—just also sit on the regulation side of a much more critical industry experiencing the same set of dynamics.

 

[Wendy]

Big issue is bubble chairs. Going with unknowns and the bubble down seems bad. Yet winds might make it so you have to keep the bubble down.

...

I think I’d rather be freezing on the way up than sit in the bubble during a pandemic, even though it would be temptingly more comfortable.

 

[James]

I think I’d rather be freezing on the way up than sit in the bubble during a pandemic, even though it would be temptingly more comfortable.

Yeah I think most would think that.
The issue is the wind catching from the bubbles up. It remains to be seen how that effects operation. I don’t know if they have a setup that allows the bubbles to be stored inside separate from the chairs. The barn for the chairs is big, but room for the bubbles separate, I doubt.

 

[mikel]

Copper is not Alterra. Copper is Powdr.

Whether it's Powdr, Alterra, or VR I think singles will be a huge challenge for any place that is utilizing new large capacity high speed chairs or gondolas to get the masses up from their main base areas.

This is current Copper verbiage.

"Guests will self-group and load chairlifts and gondolas with their traveling party. Lift attendants will not require guests to ride a chairlift with people they do not know. High capacity chairlifts and closed cabin carriers may be the exception, and may be loaded in a way that allows for physical distancing."

 

[Mike King]

Yeah I think most would think that.
The issue is the wind catching from the bubbles up. It remains to be seen how that effects operation. I don’t know if they have a setup that allows the bubbles to be stored separate from the chairs.

Even with the bubbles down is it much of an issue? The chair is moving through the air and the open bottom must mean that there is excellent air circulation...

 

[tball]

Even with the bubbles down, is it much of an issue? The chair is moving through the air, and the open bottom must mean that there is excellent air circulation...

I feel that riding a lift with someone else who's distanced is not an issue until it becomes one because of an extended stop on the chair. Then you no longer have air circulation plus a lengthy exposure risk.

That's why I'm not getting on any gondolas and will avoid riding the lift with anyone outside my household. Maybe I'll sit on the opposite end of a quad or six-pack from someone, but I won't allow the bubble to come down if I do. I don't know about other bubble lifts, but it's fine to leave the bubble up on the American Flyer at Copper Mountain, and it's the longest bubble lift in the world.

 

[James]

Even with the bubbles down is it much of an issue? The chair is moving through the air and the open bottom must mean that there is excellent air circulation...

Yes, I thinkit is. Until proven otherwise. Certainly we think it is. Might depend on how often you ride bubbles. We’ve had main bubbles for 4-5 yrs now.

If there were excellent air circulation it wouldn’t be so much warmer.

 

[mikel]

The issue is the wind catching from the bubbles up. It remains to be seen how that effects operation. I don’t know if they have a setup that allows the bubbles to be stored separate from the chairs.

Bringing the bubble down is not mandatory. At least not for the one at Copper. Plenty never bring it down. What happens if the lift stops for whatever reason? What about an extended stop? Especially in a snow storm. Natural inclination will be to lower the bubble.