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How to make the perfect turn

kickerfrank

Let's Talk Business
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Dec 8, 2015
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what are the steps, tips and tricks to make that perfect turn? How do you approach, engage and disengage your turn?

We are all in search of the rush of making that perfect turn and that perfect run.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
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KickerPaul

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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That post by Bob Barnes is an amazing biography of a perfect turn, and the metaphor is great. However, if I were not a fairly seasoned skier who already understood what disengaging an edge meant and could grasp the idea of positive and negative movements I think the post wouldn't be as useful. The metaphor would be completely lost on a novice or even an intermediate skier. In fact, I think it would be very confusing.

So what would that post look like if it were short enough to be referenced on my smartphone on the slopes? With no metaphors? Just a pure description of the body motions required to perform a perfect turn which could be understood by an intermediate skier looking towards advanced. I think less than two smartphone pages would be a good target. That would be a challenging post to write.

I'm much more of an instinctual skier and really have a hard time translating what I do into words, but hopefully someone on this forum is up to the challenge...:crash:
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
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That post by Bob Barnes is an amazing biography of a perfect turn, and the metaphor is great. However, if I were not a fairly seasoned skier who already understood what disengaging an edge meant and could grasp the idea of positive and negative movements I think the post wouldn't be as useful. The metaphor would be completely lost on a novice or even an intermediate skier. In fact, I think it would be very confusing.

So what would that post look like if it were short enough to be referenced on my smartphone on the slopes? With no metaphors? Just a pure description of the body motions required to perform a perfect turn which could be understood by an intermediate skier looking towards advanced. I think less than two smartphone pages would be a good target. That would be a challenging post to write.

I'm much more of an instinctual skier and really have a hard time translating what I do into words, but hopefully someone on this forum is up to the challenge...:crash:

The perfect on snow application is this. :D

12240349_874184282698131_4128426274271410909_o.jpg
 

Skistaff

speed limit
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Dec 19, 2015
Posts
79
what are the steps, tips and tricks to make that perfect turn? How do you approach, engage and disengage your turn?

We are all in search of the rush of making that perfect turn and that perfect run.
Leave your skis make the perfect turn all by themselves and they will do it. Don't try to help them.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Nov 12, 2015
Posts
10,561
Location
Colorado
That post by Bob Barnes is an amazing biography of a perfect turn, and the metaphor is great. However, if I were not a fairly seasoned skier who already understood what disengaging an edge meant and could grasp the idea of positive and negative movements I think the post wouldn't be as useful. The metaphor would be completely lost on a novice or even an intermediate skier. In fact, I think it would be very confusing.

So what would that post look like if it were short enough to be referenced on my smartphone on the slopes? With no metaphors? Just a pure description of the body motions required to perform a perfect turn which could be understood by an intermediate skier looking towards advanced. I think less than two smartphone pages would be a good target. That would be a challenging post to write.

I'm much more of an instinctual skier and really have a hard time translating what I do into words, but hopefully someone on this forum is up to the challenge...:crash:

I think it would be that infinity video, or the trampoline one.
 

bud heishman

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Boy, this is a tuff topic to describe so that someone who has never experienced something close to a perfect turn could possibly understand?!

It seems the area of transitions or edge changes gives most skiers the most problems! Most skiers finish their turns with the Center of Mass stalling to the inside of the arc because they fail to manage the pressure effectively between the inside and outside ski maintaining the pressure on the outside ski through completion. Another common problem is failing to manage the pressure effectively between the base of support and the CoM along the length of the skis, ending up with the CoM aft of the feet at completion. These two combined or independent mistakes stall a fluid transition.

My favorite animation from Chris Geib and Bob Barnes is the "medicine ball" animation which illustrates the path and rhythm of the center of mass through a series of linked turns. It seems most skiers struggle with fluidly linking turns, getting caught too far inside and/or too far aft at turn completion. We must learn to trust our skis and CoM traveling on converging and diverging paths to harness the "infinity move". We must become skilled at the five fundamentals of skiing, refining the ability to coordinate these fundamentals without thought. The medicine ball can not stop or be caused to go straight at any time. The ball must be released, caught softly and redirected progressively so that it's path is like a sine wave down the slope.

I spend lot's of time with instructors practicing a good neutral body position or traverse position to ingrain where we should be standing to traverse efficiently which is also the best position from which to start a new turn. This position will illustrate a slight lead of the uphill ski and a matching offset of the feet, knees, pelvis, shoulders, and hands with weight balanced strongly over the downhill ski. The nose should drip down hill of the down hill ski. From this position, even statically, the skier should be able to release their edges with the tips seeking the fall line. From this solid position in time, transitioning into a new turn is much easier.

Phil and I have discussed shooting some video for use here and this topic will likely be one of the first to illustrate.

From this good neutral position, we can add forward momentum and/or a good turn finish to release the CoM into the inside of the new turn. Depending on the amount of forward momentum and accuracy of extension the turns can be carved or steered. The skis can be tipped without any pivoting or they can be pivoted without significant edge angle, or these two skills can be blended in any desired ratio provided the skier moves accurately to be centered and balanced as the skis pass through flat to the slope.

A picture (video) would be worth a thousand words.
 

McEl

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Posts
29
In another context a notable person once said,
"I cannot define it, but I know it when I see it."

In the PUGSKI context, if one wants to see it, look at post #20 by jmeb on this site entitled Mikaela Shiffrin in the Racing and Competition sub forum.

In post #21 I said,

“Discuss.”

This video composite might be described as a series of “perfect turns” that few readers here are capable of making.

But first, a useful visual comparison, for purposes of comparing and contrasting, might be the iconic Perfect Turn poster that exists somewhere on the Internet. That picture shows the changing positions of the edges at different phases of a medium radius, medium speed parallel turn using an extension-based initiation, somewhat typical of an average upper intermediate/advanced skier on groomed terrain. It may be a useful point of reference. Can someone please post it here, if it would contribute to the discussion?

Since it apparently is permissible to drag some of BB's illustrations onto this site, would someone please post it here?
Thank you,
McEl
 

bud heishman

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Bob's diagrams above are GOLD!
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
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Nov 12, 2015
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New England
Thirteen and 21 in the dynamic turn diagram are the key to success!!

12-13 and 20-21 show what happens when the skis release their old hold on the mountain. It's also when the path of the skier's body crosses over the skis.
This is what ski instructors need to be teaching, and what skiers need to be paying attention to - the release.
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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I call it the process of becoming perpendicular to the slope during the change of edges. Thirteen and 21 show the point that occurs.
 

bud heishman

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Agree Kneale and LF! As in my original post above, I see this as a sticking point for many skiers as they get caught with their heads too far up the hill or inside the turns at this critical phase of the turn and are unable to release edges efficiently. They get lazy or timid and do not begin to reduce their inclination soon enough with angulation permitting the CM to begin moving over the feet to begin the diverging of the two paths.
 

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