How to Get Rid of a Stem Habit

[AmyPJ]

I'm working REALLY hard this season to elevate myself out of the "terminal intermediate" status I have held for a long time now. To be fair, last season was the first one where I got to ski more than 15 days EVER. Now that I have a mountain outside my back door, I can really work on things several times per week.

That being said, I took a lesson a couple weeks ago and had a huge "AHA" moment that got me feeling the "infinity move" and was working on that yesterday and wow! I was picking up speed with every run, and having an absolute blast.

I had my husband video me on one section and DAMMIT! That stem is still in there. It's much better than two weeks ago, but there it is. I can't take another lesson until after the holidays, unfortunately. I'd share the video, but I can't get it from his phone to the computer for some reason. (OK, and I'm not sure I WANT to share it because it's kind of embarrassing .) I might be able to share pieces of the video the instructor took two weeks ago because it pops up on it, too. (The improvement from the start of the lesson to the end was remarkable.)

Anyway, I'd love suggestions for a simple drill or two that I can play around with that might help me get rid of this very old, very bad habit.

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

My experience is that people stem because they don't understand about flattening what will be the outside edge. On a low angle run, practice doing that until the stem is gone, then move to a steeper run and start over. Sideslips are a good way to practice flattening the skis and pivot slips are even better, but harder. One question though, do you do it on both sides or only one?

 

[AmyPJ]

Thanks, Gerry! I do it on both sides but it's quite a bit worse when turning left. I do seem to have my left tail wash out a little on right turns and wonder how much that has to do with it--I rush my left turns almost like I'm trying to catch up. I have 1 degree canting on the left boot but wonder if I need more.

Don't laugh (and don't hate me, east coasters) but I'm not sure when even the groomers are going to be smooth enough to practice sideslips and such--we are getting SO MUCH SNOW!

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

In the video your husband did, how is your fore-aft balance? If you're sitting back, more weight will be on the tails so it will be harder to flatten the skis.

 

[AmyPJ]

In the video your husband did, how is your fore-aft balance? If you're sitting back, more weight will be on the tails so it will be harder to flatten the skis.

It's good. I was told during my lesson and have been told by instructors in the past that I have a REALLY textbook stance. I will say when I watch the video I feel as though I could be even more forward. I know I don't load/unload enough which is something else I've been working on.

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

OK. I wouldn't worry too much about being more forward. Just concentrate on flattening what will be the new downhill ski. You'll get there and when you do, your skiing will make a huge leap forward.

 

[Tricia]

Oy!
There was a time when @Bob Barnes called me Spontaneous Christie.

Most of the clean up of my Christie came when I was working on my teaching and needed to demonstrate a wedge Christie. I'm not good at writing these things but I can say, if @4ster or @Bob Barnes or @bud heishman can put it in writing, I'm betting it can help.

Does this mean that I don't get lazy or fatigued and resort to it? Ummmmm

 

[Monique]

Don't laugh (and don't hate me, east coasters) but I'm not sure when even the groomers are going to be smooth enough to practice sideslips and such--we are getting SO MUCH SNOW!

Practice falling leaf on steeper slopes, or in bumps and trees - no excuses ;-)

Seriously, if you're in steep enough terrain, flatting your edges WILL cause you to sideslip - even if there's snow in the way.

Does this mean that I don't get lazy or fatigued and resort to it? Ummmmm

I find myself with some triangular action in bumps and in steeps with 3D snow ... at least occasionally. You make a really good point though about practicing stem christies fixing the problem - that makes sense to me. Is it that focusing on how to do it intentionally led you to be more aware of when you were doing it unintentionally?

 

[AmyPJ]

@Tricia you give me so much hope!
@Monique , I'll force myself to do some falling leaf moves on steeper stuff. Bottom line is it sounds like I need to work on flattening. Does that also equate to being more patient with turn initiation?

Am I wasting my money on powder skis when I still have so many fundamentals to work on? I want to ski with my friendssssss They all take off in the powder without me.

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

Am I wasting my money on powder skis when I still have so many fundamentals to work on? I want to ski with my friendssssss :( They all take off in the powder without me.

Skiing is about having fun, so go have fun. You don't need perfect form in powder when you're on powder skis.

 

[AmyPJ]

Skiing is about having fun, so go have fun. You don't need perfect form in powder when you're on powder skis.

Enabler alert! Enabler alert!
I so needed to hear this. After last season's crap snow, then my busted leg, I can't emphasize how much I want to improve AND have fun. Avy guns are blasting this morning and the mountain is pure white. We moved to UT to ski the powder. I need to ski the powder!

 

[jmeb]

You're not the only one @AmyPJ . I often watch video I shoot of myself where I can only see my ski tips -- and there it is -- dreaded triangle out front. When I am simply carving I find I can avoid it, but once the turns get tighter or combined with some slipping/brushing/rotating movement, it starts to appear again.

I'm not an instructor, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but my own observations working on a similar problem:

First, my wedge is caused by holding onto my old outside ski's inside edge too long after starting a new turn with my new outside ski. This is what @Gerry Rhoades is talking about (I think?) -- the need to flatten the old outside ski and roll it onto now downhill edge. AKA the LTE (Little Toe Edge).

I'm not sure exactly what causes this in my skiing. I think its a combo of a) bad habits, b) not committing fully to the fall line, c) rushing into the turn with my new outside ski.

Drills I've found that temporarily help me (much of this is repetitive from above):

• Sideslips and edgesets. With a focus on the upper body being downhill. I still occasionally catch a downhill edge and eat it.
• Pivot slips.
• Railroad tracks with a focus on leading the turn with my inside ski and its inside edge.
• Almost pure (you always use some edge) rotation/slipped turns with feet together. Basically emulating what was "good style" when I was young but trying to minimize moving my weight up to release my edges (this is very hard for me.)

Two final thoughts:

1. I notice what it means to feel centered is very different when I'm just carving turns. To rotate skis freely (i.e. have flat skis) requires me to be standing very perpendicular to the slope. Or another way, be moving very much downhill. I can often cheat when I'm just laying the skis over on edge.
2. I never do drills on powder days. I just ski with whatever form I happen to have. Too much fun to be had.

 

[Monique]

@Monique , I'll force myself to do some falling leaf moves on steeper stuff. Bottom line is it sounds like I need to work on flattening. Does that also equate to being more patient with turn initiation?

Um. Well. I'm not patient with turn initiation (although I don't know how our relative impatiences compare). Patience and finding the flat ski in the middle of the turn - I'm still working on that. But I suspect that it's important to know how to flatten the ski as part of that process. One thing I like to play with in soft snow, just because it's fun, is on the runout to the lift, instead of making rounded turns with my edges, I actually go to the complete opposite end of the spectrum and control speed with windshield wiper style turns - my body moves forward in a straight line, but my skis are rotating back and forth. I am not sure where that falls on the difficulty level with side slips and falling leaf - my bet is you can't do it unless you have a pretty good ability to keep the ski intentionally flat already - but it's a fun thing to play with.

I want to emphasize here that this is not my area of strength and you should take @Gerry Rhoades or any of the instructor's input over mine. I especially feel a little antsy about my recommendation of doing falling leaf on steeper stuff - then again I learned to do it on a double black narrow bump run where the application was immediately clear - because you can use it to reroute and choose a new line or back away from a tree.

 

[Jeff N]

Anyway, I'd love suggestions for a simple drill or two that I can play around with that might help me get rid of this very old, very bad habit.

Are you sure it is just a very old, very bad habit as opposed to a cuff alignment issue?

My wife and I spent basically 4 years chasing stems at turn initiation, weird weighting and rotation, and basically every way to initiate a turn except for tipping, and her frustration got to where it was ruining skiing for her.

We gradually became aware that alignment was part of the problem, but only viewed it as part.

She got Fisher vacuum boots molded to correct the alignment, and what she spent 4 years trying to drill out disappeared in two runs. Are you sure your alignment allows you to get a flat ski while balanced and not contorting yourself to do so?

 

[James]

Crab walk.
Very gentle slope. Gliding wedge.
Flatten one ski. Youl'll move mostly side ways. Stop flattening and flatten the other ski. You go that way.
Just gets across the releasing of a ski.

You could also be trying to turn while your body is too far uphill. ( haven't commited to going downhill)
I suspect you have issues side slipping? Work on that. Straight down in a corridor.

 

[Lorenzzo]

It's not a stem christie, it's a Stivot. Ted does them. Although he knows parallel too.

 

[AmyPJ]

You're not the only one @AmyPJ . I often watch video I shoot of myself where I can only see my ski tips -- and there it is -- dreaded triangle out front. When I am simply carving I find I can avoid it, but once the turns get tighter or combined with some slipping/brushing/rotating movement, it starts to appear again.

I'm not an instructor, so take everything I say with a grain of salt, but my own observations working on a similar problem:

First, my wedge is caused by holding onto my old outside ski's inside edge too long after starting a new turn with my new outside ski. This is what @Gerry Rhoades is talking about (I think?) -- the need to flatten the old outside ski and roll it onto now downhill edge. AKA the LTE (Little Toe Edge).

I'm not sure exactly what causes this in my skiing. I think its a combo of a) bad habits, b) not committing fully to the fall line, c) rushing into the turn with my new outside ski.

Drills I've found that temporarily help me (much of this is repetitive from above):

• Sideslips and edgesets. With a focus on the upper body being downhill. I still occasionally catch a downhill edge and eat it.
• Pivot slips.
• Railroad tracks with a focus on leading the turn with my inside ski and its inside edge.
• Almost pure (you always use some edge) rotation/slipped turns with feet together. Basically emulating what was "good style" when I was young but trying to minimize moving my weight up to release my edges (this is very hard for me.)

Two final thoughts:

1. I notice what it means to feel centered is very different when I'm just carving turns. To rotate skis freely (i.e. have flat skis) requires me to be standing very perpendicular to the slope. Or another way, be moving very much downhill. I can often cheat when I'm just laying the skis over on edge.
2. I never do drills on powder days. I just ski with whatever form I happen to have. Too much fun to be had.

OK, GREAT reminder of what we worked on in the lesson in addition to two other drills, was focusing on the LTE of the soon to be inside ski. Thanks for the reminder! I find it incredibly difficult to focus on more than one thing at a time and I have to learn each movement pattern separately, so this is a good reminder to focus on the LTE at least part of the time. (My pole plants are also a mess, well, I bring my right arm WAY up for some reason. That's a really tough one for me as I don't feel it at all.)

Um. Well. I'm not patient with turn initiation (although I don't know how our relative impatiences compare). Patience and finding the flat ski in the middle of the turn - I'm still working on that. But I suspect that it's important to know how to flatten the ski as part of that process. One thing I like to play with in soft snow, just because it's fun, is on the runout to the lift, instead of making rounded turns with my edges, I actually go to the complete opposite end of the spectrum and control speed with windshield wiper style turns - my body moves forward in a straight line, but my skis are rotating back and forth. I am not sure where that falls on the difficulty level with side slips and falling leaf - my bet is you can't do it unless you have a pretty good ability to keep the ski intentionally flat already - but it's a fun thing to play with.

I want to emphasize here that this is not my area of strength and you should take @Gerry Rhoades or any of the instructor's input over mine. I especially feel a little antsy about my recommendation of doing falling leaf on steeper stuff - then again I learned to do it on a double black narrow bump run where the application was immediately clear - because you can use it to reroute and choose a new line or back away from a tree.

So, flattening the skis on a flat runout. I'll play with that, too.

Are you sure it is just a very old, very bad habit as opposed to a cuff alignment issue?

My wife and I spent basically 4 years chasing stems at turn initiation, weird weighting and rotation, and basically every way to initiate a turn except for tipping, and her frustration got to where it was ruining skiing for her.

We gradually became aware that alignment was part of the problem, but only viewed it as part.

She got Fisher vacuum boots molded to correct the alignment, and what she spent 4 years trying to drill out disappeared in two runs. Are you sure your alignment allows you to get a flat ski while balanced and not contorting yourself to do so?

No, I'm not sure at all! I did just get fitted with new boots and my fitter, who knows his stuff, did cant my left boot by 1 degree. I'll show him the videos so he can reassess. Sheesh if it were that easy, I'd be stoked. My boots ARE the Salomon Xmax which are heat molded so technically at least partially match my lower leg angles. That being said, I don't find that I can ride flat very well on cat tracks/runouts. I tend to fight the left ski drifting or turning in, in particular.

Crab walk.
Very gentle slope. Gliding wedge.
Flatten one ski. Youl'll move mostly side ways. Stop flattening and flatten the other ski. You go that way.
Just gets across the releasing of a ski.

You could also be trying to turn while your body is too far uphill. ( haven't commited to going downhill)
I suspect you have issues side slipping? Work on that. Straight down in a corridor.

Thanks, James! So it sounds like I need to work on releasing and flattening my skis based on the general consensus here.
Another lesson is also in order but this gives me some things to work on before I can get one. That gliding wedge sounds like fun.

This all brings up another question? Acceptable to practice these drills on Savory 7's? 106 under foot. Because I really really really really really REALLY want to ski them tomorrow.

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

Are you right handed?

You can do drills on any ski.

 

[AmyPJ]

Are you right handed?

You can do drills on any ski.

Yes, I am right handed.
Glad to hear I won't ruin my drillage on my new skis
Probably should use the LX82's for them, but did I mention they've gotten upwards of 3 feet at Snowbasin this week? And it was COLD today, and is supposed to be cold tonight, so the snow should set up well.

 

[Gerry Rhoades]

Two possibilities: Your weight distribution, left to right, is off a bit or the cant isn't quite right or a combination. Tell your fitter about this. I've had the same problem, right leg is dominant and left calf is weak due to scar tissue from Achilles tendon rupture. I've had to focus on it to overcome the problem, but I have mostly succeeded.

Three feet of snow?????? OMG, wish I could ski right now.