How to Determine if You Should Move Your Bindings Forward?

[cantunamunch]

I guess I'm confused because I don't ever remember a boot not being stiff enough laterally. !

Really? Almost every touring boot I've ever been in, frex, has been absolutely atrocious in lateral flex, particularly the cabrio designs.
(Notice I'm not even talking about rear entry or mid entry boots)

 

[James]

The part about chipfoam is interesting but I fail to see how absorption of energy factors in as a desirable metric in solving this problem.

Yes, he's in need of a good content editor plus content organization.He's actually improved some of those photos or added clarification.

 

[Monique]

Really? Almost every touring boot I've ever been in, frex, has been absolutely atrocious in lateral flex, particularly the cabrio designs.
(Notice I'm not even talking about rear entry or mid entry boots)

Maybe I just don't know what I'm feeling for ...

 

[AmyPJ]

So, the Tecnica Crush boots are KILLING my left knee. When I fractured my right tibial plateau, I also sprained my left MCL, which didn't get any relief while I was on crutches. Now that part of my left knee is NOT happy. I know it's the boots, because it started a day later. I'm frustrated beyond belief. Getting in with a fitter any time soon is going to be impossible. And work has me skiing DAILY. (I know, sucks to be me, right?)

 

[Monique]

=/

 

[cantunamunch]

So, the Tecnica Crush boots are KILLING my left knee. When I fractured my right tibial plateau, I also sprained my left MCL, which didn't get any relief while I was on crutches. Now that part of my left knee is NOT happy. I know it's the boots, because it started a day later. I'm frustrated beyond belief. Getting in with a fitter any time soon is going to be impossible. And work has me skiing DAILY. (I know, sucks to be me, right?)

DON"T eff with your knee ligaments. Use the other boots if you can, until you can get in to see someone.

 

[AmyPJ]

DON"T eff with your knee ligaments. Use the other boots if you can, until you can get in to see someone.

I'm definitely not going to use them. I have one other pair of Tecnicas that are the same boot but softer and with a lower cuff (not my ideal, but...) I'll give those a whirl today, and if I don't like them, I'll go back to the Salomons for now. I think it's because the Crushs are "slow to get on edge". I can't explain it, but they make me feel like I'm skiing through molasses. I had no idea I could be THAT tuned in or sensitive to how boots ski!

 

[razie]

I have 5 boots, 3 that I actively use. Put all the pins in or take them out, from 110 flex to 150s that won't come off, some cut up, some as they came. I skied one size larger as well... they're all different and impact skiing in different ways, but nothing on the magnitude you are indicating here... unless my feet slosh in them laterally, I don't really have a big issue - of course performance varies with fit and I definitely know what I have on me feet every time, but I can ski them all, without big issues.

I don't know - sounds like you have a lot of issues with the boots. Maybe it's really worth it considering a trip to the Harb Ski Shop, with an open mind and a pocket full of moneys. The feedback on their boot service is stellar, anywhere I look, especially for weird feet.

It will be painful to spend a bunch in one go, but you may end up spending more, a dime at a time... by now you are painfully aware of how important boots are to skiing enjoyment... and since you spend so much time in them, I would try to survive without spending more moneys, until I could make the trip.

cheers

 

[AmyPJ]

I have 5 boots, 3 that I actively use. Put all the pins in or take them out, from 110 flex to 150s that won't come off, some cut up, some as they came. I skied one size larger as well... they're all different and impact skiing in different ways, but nothing on the magnitude you are indicating here... unless my feet slosh in them laterally, I don't really have a big issue - of course performance varies with fit and I definitely know what I have on me feet every time, but I can ski them all, without big issues.

I don't know - sounds like you have a lot of issues with the boots. Maybe it's really worth it considering a trip to the Harb Ski Shop, with an open mind and a pocket full of moneys. The feedback on their boot service is stellar, anywhere I look, especially for weird feet.

It will be painful to spend a bunch in one go, but you may end up spending more, a dime at a time... by now you are painfully aware of how important boots are to skiing enjoyment... and since you spend so much time in them, I would try to survive without spending more, until I could make the trip.

cheers

Yeah, I can make them all work pretty well, actually. And thankfully, I guess! It's really my right boot, in every boot. My left boot feels great and works great, except in the Crush's, which definitely caused the knee pain. So, is it a balance issue, an anatomical issue coming from higher up, or??? I have been getting all kinds of coaching from a lot of the higher level instructors along with the Ski School director, and they are pushing technique, technique, technique. I still think it's a combination and that I might need additional canting on the right boot. I'm going to keep working with them on my days off, since I can hop into lessons anytime, and even if it's a "lower level" lesson than I would normally be in, if it's a higher level instructor, I'll still get good coaching.

I put the Intuition Pro Tongues into the XMax shells yesterday just for kicks and grins. It really is an awesome, tight fit but that liner just pushes my knee too far forward. I'm going to explore that and see if I can't do further modifications. A 90 flex really does seem too soft now, but those liners make them a whole lot stiffer.

And I did the Torchlight parade last night, and it was one of the funnest things I have EVER done! We skied about 2000 vert in the dark with headlamps, on freshly groomed snow that had about an inch of new snow on it. Sublime! Then we got the torches and skied another approx 1000 vert with those. I wanted to do it again!

 

[razie]

Truly - many don't understand the relationships between equipment and physiological issues and technique - that's why I especially like Bud's EPT or EEPPTT as the CSCF has it: look at the equipment and all the other stuff before changing technique. The reality is that the effect of equipment and physical/psychological factors is not really taught or well known, so most just skip that part.

 

[James]

This should stop. Get seen by Amsbury. No need to go to Colo. Lessons are just more $. More dart throwing.
(ps- plenty of horror shows from HSS)

Let's see, if one foot is way off that's 50% of the system. I suppose it could be worse...

 

[AmyPJ]

Truly - many don't understand the relationships between equipment and physiological issues and technique - that's why I especially like Bud's EPT or EEPPTT as the CSCF has it: look at the equipment and all the other stuff before changing technique. The reality is that the effect of equipment and physical/psychological factors is not really taught or well known, so most just skip that part.

I appreciate the "validation". I can't explain entirely what my right foot/leg/boot feels like and how it affects my ski. If I roll to the BT/ball of my foot, that ski kind of shoots out in front of me. And my foot and ankle roll around in there.

This should stop. Get seen by Amsbury. No need to go to Colo. Lessons are just more $. More dart throwing.
(ps- plenty of horror shows from HSS)

Let's see, if one foot is way off that's 50% of the system. I suppose it could be worse...

I went to Amsbury and was not thrilled with the results. He determined that my right leg was shorter (it's the leg I fractured) but his solution was a 6mm heel lift in that boot. It felt horrible.

 

[Dwnhlldav]

...Sometimes I wonder why do instructors incessantly stress getting forward. Bob Barnes has quite a bit of stuff on the myth of getting forward and which way is forward on epic.

I know I'm a bit late to the game. I saw this comment and have meant to get back and reply to it.

In the past I was an instructor. Now I'm patrolling, but am a ski skills instructor for my patrol. One of the bad habits I got into when I was first starting out as an instructor, was exaggerating to get a student into the correct position, and not reigning them in as they progressed.

Many beginners that I saw, were way back in the seat. I'd work on moving their center of mass forward through drills, and describing sensations. The goal wasn't to be way forward, but to be centered. Because many people started out so far in the back seat, they felt like they were falling over forward when they were actually in a centered position. So, to get them to stay in that center position, I'd exaggerate when demonstrating drills, and when telling them the sensations they should feel. It usually worked to bring them out of the back seat, and into a centered position because their perception was that they were very far forward, when in reality they were centered. All was fine and dandy if I could continue working with that skier, but if they never came back, they could end up being too far forward all the time. As I've progressed, I've learned to move a skier to a centered position without as much reliance on exaggeration to get them there. I suspect that it's lesser experienced instructors perpetuating the need to be way forward.

Like many, based on what the OP is describing I think she may be too far forward, among other possible issues. I haven't made it past page 3 to see what has come from the advice doled out.

 

[Dwnhlldav]

There's only two types of skis....Rock skis and those becoming rock skis. Well I guess we need the living museum category.

I don't know why there's all this focus on what skis you're on. You feel extremely unbalanced it seems from what you say. If you felt balanced the ski would just be "oh that's a bit short/long" not "I'm in crisis and uncomfortable".

If you felt balanced you could ski a 112cm carving ski doing big turns on hard pack and have a blast.

What I don't get is the description of windshield wiping the tips. From your description should be the tails. Washing the tips you'd be back. But the description might be different than what I'm interpreting.

It's likely the boot/binding issues are compounded by technique though some of the technique may compensate for the balance issues.

Almost certain that there's a delta issue going on here. With such a small boot small delta difference is a big deal. The issue could start in the boot board too. Maybe too much ramp.

Without pictures or video pretty hard to say much. You can do simple things like stand in your boots on the floor then try putting magazines under the toes. Ie the toe only rests on the mag. Add different thickness. Try heel only too- the reverse angle. See how changing the thickness makes the balance feel.

I like how you started out. If you feel balanced, you can feel balanced on any ski, but I'm not understanding how playing with the angle of boots will fix this either? If you know what balanced feels like, you should be able to find balance regardless of the angle of the boot in relation to the ski. My Carving skis have substantially more heel lift that my powder or all mountain skis. While I certainly notice the difference, I have no problem adjusting for it, and finding a balanced stance on any of them.

While the end results (the windshield wiper tips) could certainly be caused by equipment issues, the sensation of not feeling balanced, and trying very hard to get her COM forward even further leads me to believe that equipment has nothing to do with the issues. The root cause is almost certainly a balance issue within her technique, the stiffer skis just act to exaggerate the effects.

I think we can all agree that most of our advice is worthless without video...

Edit: I just read more of the thread. Now that we know there is a physical imbalance (or at least it sounds as if there is) it is certainly advisable to try and compensate by making equipment adjustments.

 

[cantunamunch]

I went to Amsbury and was not thrilled with the results. He determined that my right leg was shorter (it's the leg I fractured) but his solution was a 6mm heel lift in that boot. It felt horrible.

Describe horrible?

 

[AmyPJ]

Describe horrible?

Like a stiletto heel under that side.
I just ordered a pair of Head B5 RD boots in a 273 (23.5.) I tried a 263 shell and it was wicked short. They have a 92mm last, which will be even narrower and lower volume in the smaller boot. I'm excited to get them. I have an appointment with my fitter, too. I'm tired of shims and thick socks, and steep ramp angles.

And the Kenjas are kicking my butt this year. I have now lost 10 lbs. since last season. They are SO stiff.

The instructors I've been working with this season are in consensus that I am bending at the knees too much and not enough ankle flexion. A steep angled boot could do that, especially to someone who is really trying to step up their technique. Couple that with stiff skis, and I can see why I might be struggling. It's looking like a groomer ski weekend. Going to drag out the Kastle LX82s.

 

[James]

If you feel balanced, you can feel balanced on any ski, but I'm not understanding how playing with the angle of boots will fix this either? If you know what balanced feels like, you should be able to find balance regardless of the angle of the boot in relation to the ski.

My Carving skis have substantially more heel lift that my powder or all mountain skis. While I certainly notice the difference, I have no problem adjusting for it, and finding a balanced stance on any of them.

You may just be lucky. Others not so much. Boots can destroy the balance system.
Go look around on this site:

https://skimoves.me/2015/12/13/its-a-matter-0f-balance/

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I'm rather disappointed that NONE of my boot fitters I've seen have ever offered to pad the TOP of my foot. They all just throw a shim in the bottom of the boot, which to me lifts the whole foot up and out of the ideal pocket for boot flexion. Might be why I feel like the Tecnicas I'm in right now are a bit "slow to respond."

I feel you on this one. My feet are not as narrow as yours (though I am still too narrow for any boot I have tried) and I remember stopping on the side of a run, taking my boot off, and reseating my heel to ski down. I went into the lodge and ripped out the heel lifts which was a huge improvement. A week later, I ripped out the shims and that made it even better. Yes, the boots are too wide but at least I can center my balance. At this point, I don't want anything added UNDERFOOT. Surely, there is a better solution.

I guess I'm confused because I don't ever remember a boot not being stiff enough laterally. I don't put them through deep carves, though. Now, play inside the boot - I know what that feels like, and I hate it!

When I was playing around with the Chakras, I tried them with the flex "doo-hickey" (yes this is the official Dalbello terminology!) completely removed. The first thing I noticed was that the boots felt super loose at the ankles. When I flexed, the shell actually moved sideways! I put the "doo hickey" back in.

 

[AmyPJ]

You may just be lucky. Others not so much. Boots can destroy the balance system.
Go look around on this site:

https://skimoves.me/2015/12/13/its-a-matter-0f-balance/

I can attest to the fact that typically, early in the day, after my warm-up run, I feel a LOT more balanced than after two hours, when I start slopping around. I can also really feel a difference in the boots I have that have heel lifts, and those that don't. No more heel lifts...

I feel you on this one. My feet are not as narrow as yours (though I am still too narrow for any boot I have tried) and I remember stopping on the side of a run, taking my boot off, and reseating my heel to ski down. I went into the lodge and ripped out the heel lifts which was a huge improvement. A week later, I ripped out the shims and that made it even better. Yes, the boots are too wide but at least I can center my balance. At this point, I don't want anything added UNDERFOOT. Surely, there is a better solution.

When I was playing around with the Chakras, I tried them with the flex "doo-hickey" (yes this is the official Dalbello terminology!) completely removed. The first thing I noticed was that the boots felt super loose at the ankles. When I flexed, the shell actually moved sideways! I put the "doo hickey" back in.

Yes, the shims feel a bit like a platform shoe, don't they?

 

[cantunamunch]

In re: unequal legs, can you ask for a completely built up boot, i.e. front and back shims under the lugs, with routed tops?

OFC if you have a pair of cheapo test mule skis you could just put 1/4" lift under the binding front and back, for experimentation-like.

In re: padding top of foot, you know you can do that yourself with just EVA foam and some tape, inside the sock?