How short is too short for steeps and bumps?

[AngryAnalyst]

The thing is, I'm not really using these at speed except when cruising back to the lifts.



I think the major risk is not properly releasing edges when initiating turns, right? I definitely know to watch for that and what it feels like. I have been thinking that if I keep using the Ones, I should probably swap in the Pinnacle 105s in 184cm whenever the conditions aren't really fresh to help avoid that.

1. I understand. At some point you may still get to speeds in bumps and trees where they are limiting. Just for context, I am your height and about 30 lbs heavier (hopefully less by the end of the season). I choose between the two longest sizes for every model and have skis between 178-194 cm in my quiver. I usually go shorter for my east coast hard snow skis and longer for powder/west coast chargers. I completely agree that there are costs to length in tight terrain, but I doubt a very short ski would help me much more than the ~180 cm with tail rocker skis I currently use. I don't have enough experience on skis as short as you're using to have a refined view unfortunately.

2. I am not an instructor. Other board members are. If they have more specific concerns and are paying attention I would trust their feedback 10x more than mine. However, my best guess is that you might like shorter skis because you force early rotation in a turn. If combined with bad fore/aft balance this becomes tail gunning/pushing. There is a fine line between the way I would verbally describe pivots and slarves, which most people think of as "good" technique in steep and tight terrain, and the sort of thing I wonder if you're doing. Without seeing you ski I can't tell you what side of the line you're on. Again, I would trust your instructor.

 

[Seldomski]

@Brock Tice I am roughly your size (me: 6' and 210 lbs) and probably similar ability level. I like skis 175-180 length. I have skied 'slalom' carvers at 170cm, and those were great except for groomed blacks. I definitely wanted more edge length/stability for sustained steep with no snow features to slow me down (i.e. bumps).

But, I generally ski slow-ish and turn a lot. I find that 180+ skis encourage me to ski faster, steeper, and make big swooping GS turns to really feel the edge hold and bend the ski. These are really fun, but not usually possible to do all day at resorts I ski... so I generally choose <180 cm length not because I can't ski them, but because they don't generally align with a way I can actually ski safely all day.

 

[KingGrump]

TSV, where the OP hangs out generally favors shorter skis. Lots of huge steep bumps and steep tight trees.

It's not unusual to hear Jean Jean Mayer, tech director of the ski school, tell one of his student/instructor to show up tomorrow with a shorter pair of skis.
Shorter skis promotes increased sensitivity in fore and aft balance.

 

[GregK]

There's no weight given on the Kore 105 page. https://www.evo.com/skis/head-kore-105

Reading around I'm seeing about 1843g for the Kore vs 1950g for the rustler, per ski. So that's only 1/2lb.

100 grams difference in the 180(less than 1/4 pound) and the rustler 188cm is an oz lighter than the Kore 105 189.

 

[James]

TSV, where the OP hangs out generally favors shorter skis. Lots of huge steep bumps and steep tight trees.

It's not unusual to hear Jean Jean Mayer, tech director of the ski school, tell one of his student/instructor to show up tomorrow with a shorter pair of skis.
Shorter skis promotes increased sensitivity in fore and aft balance.

Sad to see TSV, and Jean have gotten soft.
I remember skiing some chute skiers left of Stauffenberg. I think you kind of go around and then you're at a right angle to Stauffy. Anyway, I'm looking at this thing and thinking I can't even fit my 193 Volkl P40 F1, (Not a great Taos ski), sideways in this thing. But then I watch the guy in front of me go down it and I know he's on 203's. So now I have no excuse.
The Taos ski week was great for that type of thing. My first exposure to that kind of terrain. There's a lot of it in a small place.

 

[Brock Tice]

Sad to see TSV, and Jean have gotten soft.
I remember skiing some chute skiers left of Stauffenberg. I think you kind of go around and then you're at a right angle to Stauffy.

Sounds like St.B. I just skied it a couple times on Saturday. Still had to be a bit careful of sharks. Soft stuff on top but the base needs more.

 

[mdf]

Shorter skis promotes increased sensitivity in fore and aft balance.

Not always a good thing. The last time I was at Taos, I skied the last day on my slalom skis, well just because I brought them. (Read that as, because you badgered me into bringing them.) So @Freaq and I are skiing the trees leading down to, I think, Werner's Chute, when one of my skis very sensitively decided to do a tip dive. Fortunately I was going very slow and managed force my other ski around and grab a tree. I looked over, and there was my ski conveniently next to my shoulder.

 

[James]

Not always a good thing. The last time I was at Taos, I skied the last day on my slalom skis, well just because I brought them. (Read that as, because you badgered me into bringing them.) So @Freaq and I are skiing the trees leading down to, I think, Werner's Chute, when one of my skis very sensitively decided to do a tip dive. Fortunately I was going very slow and managed force my other ski around and grab a tree. I looked over, and there was my ski conveniently next to my shoulder.

And?? (Don't make us get Josh..)
If you'd been on one of Grump's 3 pair of Kendo's, even the 170, Probably ok.

 

[mdf]

I put it back on and skied it without incident the rest of the day. I did wish for the Coombas now and then, though.
So, (grumble, grumble) maybe it did improve my fore-aft balance.

 

[David Chaus]

If you are comfortable skiing your skis and the skis are working stay with them or similar..

Just for fun: Here's video of a friend's son on 'shorties" aka Blades at Alta.

It is comedy- hopefully not too offense and this is OK to post?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/822570/MARIO-S-HIT-LIST

OK, that was funny.

 

[KingGrump]

The last time I was at Taos, I skied the last day on my slalom skis, well just because I brought them. (Read that as, because you badgered me into bringing them.)

I put it back on and skied it without incident the rest of the day. I did wish for the Coombas now and then, though.
So, (grumble, grumble) maybe it did improve my fore-aft balance.

I don't know. I never see Andrew had issues with his all mountain boards.

 

[James]

I don't know. I never see Andrew had issues with his all mountain boards.

Well we're making progress on @mdf's slalom therapy. After years of skiing the Coombas, it takes time. He does have the 183 Stockli Ax's. (On the steeps at Kton I thought I had shackles on my legs. Can't imagine what a prison Taos would be. Slaloms all the way vs 183AX)
Maybe we could get him a foot massage subscription if he gives up his boots from last century?

 

[KingGrump]

if he gives up his boots from last century?

That is something that will never happen.

 

[Tony S]

Sounds like St.B. I just skied it a couple times on Saturday. Still had to be a bit careful of sharks. Soft stuff on top but the base needs more.

That's beautiful.

 

[Tony S]

If you are comfortable skiing your skis and the skis are working stay with them or similar..

Especially if you're bringing them to challenging terrain. Easy terrain, challenging skis. Challenging terrain, easy skis.

 

[James]

Sounds like St.B. I just skied it a couple times on Saturday. Still had to be a bit careful of sharks. Soft stuff on top but the base needs more.

Could have been. I remember a pretty defined entrance with a steeper wall on left. Amazing how the camera flattens that out. Only clue to the pitch is the angle the trees grow at.

We didn't have near that snow. It was end of March and it hadn't snowed for weeks. It started dumping Friday after the ski week. Everyone came out with powder fever. It got annoying on the hike. Every lap was fresh because the wind was blowing it over into the chutes. At some point I tired of the people who were far worse than nyc and went down to the coffee shop where I'd gone all week. I went skiing with the owner, (who closed up!), and her 10 yr old daughter on the other part of the mt. Blue trails, off trail and through the trees. It was fun. The kid at times would ski on the flats, hold her arms out like Frankenstein and mumble "Powder...Powder...I need Powder..." Hilarious. That was a great afternoon.

 

[Tony S]

That is something that will never happen.

Disagree. I thought so too until I saw him on the Navigators. Thing is, he'll do it on a stealth basis until all the kinks are worked out, then make his debut. Might be happening right now.

 

[KingGrump]

Disagree. I thought so too until I saw him on the Navigators. Thing is, he'll do it on a stealth basis until all the kinks are worked out, then make his debut. Might be happening right now.

So @mdf , does Tony really have the skinny on you?

 

[mdf]

I don't go looking for skis for a specific niche - when I love something I demo then I buy it. Can't do that with boots.

Actually, we were talking about boots at lunch in Black Mountain Lodge a A-Basin last spring, and cgeib, james, and philpug were analyzing my stance. I was considering making a run at modern boots this fall. If I hadn't had cataract surgery there is a chance (a small chance) I might have done it.

And then I read or hear all the boot nightmares (or even worse, the people who say "my boots are great. Oh, by the way, do you know a good shop around here where I can get a punch?") and think, "nah....".

 

[tball]

Bump to add a bit of advocacy for short skis, particularly in the bumps.

I was reading Stephen Karp's packet (basically a free book on bump skiing) for his Bump Busters camp at Copper Mountain and noticed this tip to use short skis:

Tip 10 - This will be controversial, because it is not conventional thinking, but here we go. Determining the appropriate length of your skis has little to do with your height and weight - unless your goal is to ski fast. If you are an aging Baby Boomer, selecting the length of your skis should be a function of two things: your age and the number of days you ski each year. The older you are and/or the fewer number of days you ski each season are all arguments for shorter skis. Now "short" is a relative term. Skiers who used to ski on 210cm skis and who now ski on 180cm skis think they are on short skis. But, when we say short, we mean short. If you are skiing in-bounds in a ski area, with today's ski technology, we find that there is no penalty for skiing shorter skis. You gain much more maneuverability and because a shorter ski length typically correlates with a smaller turn radius, a shorter ski spends less time in the fall line, which means that the skier is not going as fast and, which, in turn, lowers anxiety. These are all desirable benefits if you are a Boomer skiing in moguls and powder. Let's re-calibrate your thinking about ski length. For aging Boomers (age 50+) we are seeing great results with mid-fat skis in a 150cm - 160cm length for men and 146cm - 150cm for women
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"150cm - 160cm length for men and 146cm - 150cm for women" is really short! I've gravitated down from the 180 cm range to around 172 cm and couldn't be happier at 180ish lbs. It depends on the ski, of course.