How short is too short for steeps and bumps?

[Brock Tice]

I'm still a relatively new skier, having started about 6 years ago as an adult. I've had a lot of lessons but I don't have long experience so please go easy on me. I'm 6'1 about 190lbs.

A few years back when I got to about an advanced skill level, I got some K2 Pinnacle 105s in 184 length. I had demoed the 177s and the 184s, and while the 177s felt more playful, the 184s felt like they could help me push more power. I did pretty well on them and they are still my go-to all-mountain ski.

However, last year some deeply discounted Völkl Ones in 166cm length caught my eye, former demo skis at a cheap price. I tried them out and they were a blast. I ended up buying them and I really enjoy skiing them in bumps, steep trees, etc, especially when there is some good soft snow. I've been having a great time with them off the ridges at Taos Ski Valley.

I'm not noticing any downsides to them for that kind of skiing, but yesterday in locals clinic an older guy gave me some guff about them, calling them "the ski equivalent of e-mountain bikes". Yes, they make turning easier in bumps and deeper snow, especially with the rocker and the shorter length.

For comparison, at demo days this year I lapped Longhorn (long, steep bump run) 8x with 8 different pairs of skis, and found the Blizzard Rustler 11s in 188 length to be even more fun than the Völkl Ones, with the Head Kore 105s a close second. I can definitely feel the extra care in turn initiation required for some longer, heavier skis, but not those Rustlers. I am finding I really enjoy one-teen skis underfoot for smearing bumps. Can I ski them in my Stöckli lasers? Sure. Is it anywhere near as fun? No.

Where should I go from here? Is there really anything really wrong with using the relatively short skis if they are working for me?

 

[Philpug]

Is there really anything really wrong with using the relatively short skis if they are working for me?

No. You will know when they are not right for you..in the meantime..enjoy the ride.

 

[KingGrump]

What Phil said.

 

[GregK]

I'm still a relatively new skier, having started about 6 years ago as an adult. I've had a lot of lessons but I don't have long experience so please go easy on me. I'm 6'1 about 190lbs.

A few years back when I got to about an advanced skill level, I got some K2 Pinnacle 105s in 184 length. I had demoed the 177s and the 184s, and while the 177s felt more playful, the 184s felt like they could help me push more power. I did pretty well on them and they are still my go-to all-mountain ski.

However, last year some deeply discounted Völkl Ones in 166cm length caught my eye, former demo skis at a cheap price. I tried them out and they were a blast. I ended up buying them and I really enjoy skiing them in bumps, steep trees, etc, especially when there is some good soft snow. I've been having a great time with them off the ridges at Taos Ski Valley.

I'm not noticing any downsides to them for that kind of skiing, but yesterday in locals clinic an older guy gave me some guff about them, calling them "the ski equivalent of e-mountain bikes". Yes, they make turning easier in bumps and deeper snow, especially with the rocker and the shorter length.

For comparison, at demo days this year I lapped Longhorn (long, steep bump run) 8x with 8 different pairs of skis, and found the Blizzard Rustler 11s in 188 length to be even more fun than the Völkl Ones, with the Head Kore 105s a close second. I can definitely feel the extra care in turn initiation required for some longer, heavier skis, but not those Rustlers. I am finding I really enjoy one-teen skis underfoot for smearing bumps. Can I ski them in my Stöckli lasers? Sure. Is it anywhere near as fun? No.

Where should I go from here? Is there really anything really wrong with using the relatively short skis if they are working for me?

Where do you go from here? Easy you buy a pair of 180cm Rustler 11 that will be even more fun than the 188cm version! If you found the 188cm version more fun than your Ones, the 180cm will be even better and you won’t be made fun of for using a Ski WAY too short for you. Lol

Demo the 180cm and thank me later.

 

[Ken_R]

I'm still a relatively new skier, having started about 6 years ago as an adult. I've had a lot of lessons but I don't have long experience so please go easy on me. I'm 6'1 about 190lbs.

A few years back when I got to about an advanced skill level, I got some K2 Pinnacle 105s in 184 length. I had demoed the 177s and the 184s, and while the 177s felt more playful, the 184s felt like they could help me push more power. I did pretty well on them and they are still my go-to all-mountain ski.

However, last year some deeply discounted Völkl Ones in 166cm length caught my eye, former demo skis at a cheap price. I tried them out and they were a blast. I ended up buying them and I really enjoy skiing them in bumps, steep trees, etc, especially when there is some good soft snow. I've been having a great time with them off the ridges at Taos Ski Valley.

I'm not noticing any downsides to them for that kind of skiing, but yesterday in locals clinic an older guy gave me some guff about them, calling them "the ski equivalent of e-mountain bikes". Yes, they make turning easier in bumps and deeper snow, especially with the rocker and the shorter length.

For comparison, at demo days this year I lapped Longhorn (long, steep bump run) 8x with 8 different pairs of skis, and found the Blizzard Rustler 11s in 188 length to be even more fun than the Völkl Ones, with the Head Kore 105s a close second. I can definitely feel the extra care in turn initiation required for some longer, heavier skis, but not those Rustlers. I am finding I really enjoy one-teen skis underfoot for smearing bumps. Can I ski them in my Stöckli lasers? Sure. Is it anywhere near as fun? No.

Where should I go from here? Is there really anything really wrong with using the relatively short skis if they are working for me?

If you are having a great time with the skis keep them.

That said the Volkl One is a pretty stiff, full rocker powder ski. They wouldnt be my first choice as an all mountain ski even here out west and much less in the length they would be best for use in powder (~ >185cm) but on the shorter length they seem to work great for you.

For steep trees and bumps I would choose another ski. Its always best to demo so keep your Volkls and keep searching.

All mountain skis in the 175-180cm range and 85-95mm width should be on your radar. .There are PLENTY of good choices.

 

[Don in Morrison]

I'm 5' 11" and 210 lb. I should be on 180-ish, but if I'm ever on anything longer than 163, it's a retro 200+, and that's about once a year for a few runs. My preferred bump ski is a 40-year-old 150 cm rental. It works fine for me, but I'm kind of an outlier anyway. I do things differently. If you're ok with what you have, go for it. If you like it, it's the right ski.

 

[Alexzn]

This thread is useless without a video of you skiing. If you like the skis, ski them. On the other hand they maybe functioning as a crutch for masking serious technical deficiencies. I suspect the latter given your stats, but whatever rocks your boat.

 

[James]

177 Kendo for Taos.

 

[Eleeski]

Snollerblades are too short.

Any other length that you enjoy and ski well is fine.

OK, snollerblades can be fun too.

Eric

 

[Brock Tice]

they maybe functioning as a crutch for masking serious technical deficiencies.

You mean like not moving my center of mass over the skis and transitioning properly between turns, releasing the tails? Maybe occasionally if I get defensive, but I don't usually have a problem with that. I can certainly ask my instructor at next weekend's locals clinic. I've got video but unfortunately it's all first-person.

 

[James]

Chop a '1' off those sizes!...88cm:

 

[Brock Tice]

Chop a '1' off those sizes!...88cm:
View attachment 62842

 

[Josh Matta]

The reality is if you not going super fast, and making tighter turns most people wont mind having a shorter ski. I personally cant stand really short skis in bumps, because I rely too much on the length to not get knocked around, but I do take my wifes skis out from time to time and ski on them, and they arent so bad in the woods, but pretty awful on groomer with any sort of chop.

It sounds like you found your ski though in those Rustler 11, just buy them and dont think about it. Your bumps must be pretty soft to like the 11 though, I have never been to taos but from what I have heard my everyday ski out there would be 188cm Rustler 9 or 185cm E93. I am shorter than you and slightly heavier.

 

[Brock Tice]

It sounds like you found your ski though in those Rustler 11, just buy them and dont think about it. Your bumps must be pretty soft to like the 11 though, I have never been to taos but from what I have heard my everyday ski out there would be 188cm Rustler 9 or 185cm E93.

Conditions are pretty nice right now, when things harden up I'm more likely to grab the pinnacle 105s or even the Laser SCs. As for the Rustlers, I'll be watching for end of season sales, not flush enough to just buy them right now, unfortunately. I'm also looking to get the Kore 105s in an AT setup after I take some AT classes this season. They're more than a pound lighter.

 

[GregK]

Conditions are pretty nice right now, when things harden up I'm more likely to grab the pinnacle 105s or even the Laser SCs. As for the Rustlers, I'll be watching for end of season sales, not flush enough to just buy them right now, unfortunately. I'm also looking to get the Kore 105s in an AT setup after I take some AT classes this season. They're more than a pound lighter.

Just so you know, the 189cm Kore 105 is the exact same weight as the Rustler 11 188cm. EVO has a listing for most ski weights in the last few years.

 

[ADKmel]

If you are comfortable skiing your skis and the skis are working stay with them or similar..

Just for fun: Here's video of a friend's son on 'shorties" aka Blades at Alta.

It is comedy- hopefully not too offense and this is OK to post?

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/822570/MARIO-S-HIT-LIST

 

[Brock Tice]

Just so you know, the 189cm Kore 105 is the exact same weight as the Rustler 11 188cm. EVO has a listing for most ski weights in the last few years.

Hmm I had read a big review of some of this season's skis and they listed over a 1lb difference between them, I'll leave to look into it a bit more.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

The real answer to your question is if you like the skis you’re on use them. Everyone is saying that. It’s correct.

The more complicated question is whether a ski you might like more exists. You have found one, it’s a Rustler 11. When you start to feel like the ski you’re on isn’t stable at speeds you achieve (I am pretty sure it will happen if you improve) you should know the obvious solution is to buy a much longer ski with generous rocker.

A related but different question is whether skiing on 10-20 cm too short powder skis is causing you to develop bad habits or reinforce existing bad habits. My suspicion is yes and yes, but if you’re regularly getting lessons I would trust your instructor more than the board.

 

[Brock Tice]

The more complicated question is whether a ski you might like more exists. You have found one, it’s a Rustler 11. When you start to feel like the ski you’re on isn’t stable at speeds you achieve (I am pretty sure it will happen if you improve) you should know the obvious solution is to buy a much longer ski with generous rocker.

The thing is, I'm not really using these at speed except when cruising back to the lifts.

A related but different question is whether skiing on 10-20 cm too short powder skis is causing you to develop bad habits or reinforce existing bad habits. My suspicion is yes and yes, but if you’re regularly getting lessons I would trust your instructor more than the board.

I think the major risk is not properly releasing edges when initiating turns, right? I definitely know to watch for that and what it feels like. I have been thinking that if I keep using the Ones, I should probably swap in the Pinnacle 105s in 184cm whenever the conditions aren't really fresh to help avoid that.

 

[Brock Tice]

Just so you know, the 189cm Kore 105 is the exact same weight as the Rustler 11 188cm. EVO has a listing for most ski weights in the last few years.

There's no weight given on the Kore 105 page. https://www.evo.com/skis/head-kore-105

Reading around I'm seeing about 1843g for the Kore vs 1950g for the rustler, per ski. So that's only 1/2lb.