How Is Your Corn?

[luliski]

Yeah, it was pretty warm all night. not much corn without a freeze. I drove from Utah to Tahoe yesterday. It was almost 70f at dusk east of Reno & still around 50f at dark in Tahoe. Hope this storm doesn’t leave to many rain runnels when it’s done or lose a bunch of snow pack.

Wow, I didn't realize it was that warm at night. Looks like tonight and tomorrow night will also be warm.

 

[Tony]

& the fact that Kirkwood is closing on Sunday ."

That's going to be a hard pill to swallow for a lot of skiers around here.
No snow until March and now full coverage and lots of base depth...sigh.

Vail did announce Kirkwood's 2017-18 closing date last April so while it is disappointing, it should not be a surprise. I started my season at Kirkwood with three late November powder days and also caught some new snow in Jan and early Feb so it was not exactly no snow at higher elevations around Tahoe. December was very disappointing. March did had some all-time powder days, some of which we missed being in UT.

I ended my Kirkwood season today with 16 days there including 3 days that I skied both Heavenly and Kirkwood. Yesterday there was some corn, but there were a lot of places where snow needed more compaction as soft layer on top was 2-4" deep which meant you had to be careful you did not dig in too deep and get spun around. Even though there was not much of a freeze last night, groomers on Backside and Cornice skied like corn today. There was a deep firm base with an inch or so of soft, but not sticky snow on top that skied well. My friend pushed back his arrival to Tahoe City and birthday dinner by a day so I bailed and was on the road at 1 and got home before traffic getting into San Jose was too bad and I beat my wife (who works out after work) home.

 

[Tricia]

Yeah, it was pretty warm all night. not much corn without a freeze. I drove from Utah to Tahoe yesterday. It was almost 70f at dusk east of Reno & still around 50f at dark in Tahoe. Hope this storm doesn’t leave to many rain runnels when it’s done or lose a bunch of snow pack.

That's interesting because we've been waking up to mid thirties here in Reno. I figured it was colder at elevation.

 

[4ster]

That's interesting because we've been waking up to mid thirties here in Reno. I figured it was colder at elevation.

I am only referring to last night/Thursday morning, I don’t think it was an inversion just warmer air in the wind. With a warm front making its way into the Sierra & overcast skies, I don’t think I would expect a freeze tonight either.

 

[Tricia]

Better, thanks for asking.

Thank you for not posting a picture of @Drahtguy Kevin's corn.

 

[dbostedo]

Just any soft snow, for instance 2 or 3 day old mushy fresh snow is not enough as it takes some days of thaw freeze thaw cycles for granular corn crystals to form.

I suspect I've never skied corn snow in the strictest definition you're using Dave.

I also suspect that a lot of people that say they were skiing it, weren't. Because I suspect that there are many, many definitions of "corn snow", and not everyone's is the same.

I also know, that because of multiple definitions, even after reading tons of threads and posts about it, I have no idea what it actually is.

 

[Tony S]

Weather is intractable here. Gonna be too cold and cloudy for a bit now.

 

[Tony S]

I suspect I've never skied corn snow in the strictest definition you're using Dave.

I also suspect that a lot of people that say they were skiing it, weren't. Because I suspect that there are many, many definitions of "corn snow", and not everyone's is the same.

I also know, that because of multiple definitions, even after reading tons of threads and posts about it, I have no idea what it actually is.

I can't define it, but I know it when I ski it.

 

[CalG]

We need a "rotten snow" side thread.

Corn is too "predictable".

When you can push a ski pole full length into sun cup and rotten snow, there is an opportunity for something different.
Bring out the fattys! Rotten snow skis like rich powder.....

or does it? '=_

 

[PisteOff]

No corn here. Just POW.

And my feet are fine.

You’re not helping the conversation!

 

[graham418]

Had a fantastic Easter weekend at Mt Ste Anne and LeMassif. Saturday and Monday we had to wait for the corn to be ready, all the bump runs were on progressive opening so it wasn't until 11:30 that we could have a taste. So sweet to smear around in the bumps!! Sunday we spent the day at LeMassif, it never froze overnight, so had a hefty helping of beautiful corn all day, bumps, trees , it was all glorious. I love spring!!

 

[NE1]

I also suspect that a lot of people that say they were skiing it, weren't. Because I suspect that there are many, many definitions of "corn snow", and not everyone's is the same.

I also know, that because of multiple definitions, even after reading tons of threads and posts about it, I have no idea what it actually is.

I'd like to take a crack at this.

To me, corn snow means small round-ish ice balls smaller than the size of BBs that are well lubricated from their neighbor "BBs" by moisture, and hence free to slide around each other willy_nilly.

 

[dbostedo]

I'd like to take a crack at this.

To me, corn snow means small round-ish ice balls smaller than the size of BBs that are well lubricated from their neighbor "BBs" by moisture, and hence free to slide around each other willy_nilly.

Thanks NE1... I think ultimately, I'd probably either need someone to show and explain in person, or to see a good video showing it close-up.

I've skied all different kinds of dry-ish slush, wet slush, graupel, shaved ice, etc. I've skied out west on slopes that in a day went from frozen hardpack, to soft, to slushy, to sloppy. Maybe I hit "corn" somewhere in there? I never pay enough attention to what I'm skiing on, just how it skis. Corn seems to be pretty specific, but I don't think people use the term that way. I'm guessing that people use "corn" for any sun-softened snow that skis well and isn't sticky.

 

[tball]

I've never heard of closing runs to farm corn in Colorado. Sometimes it happens by chance, though.

Areas will occasionally extend their season and open weekends only. The day they reopen can yield fantastic conditions after the snow has been unskied all week.

Also, A-basin will close terrain due to wet-slab avalanche danger then possibly reopen it later if it freezes hard. I think some Mother's Day gatherers enjoyed some excellent conditions after the reopening of Pali a few years back.

 

[nay]

Corn is a way overused term. In the perfect state, It is smooth and the water content is obvious, and by the definition of how it forms, it can’t readily exist in skier traffic areas, i.e. resorts, because of the disruption of the grain to water structure required to create a corn cluster.

We’ve talked about the high altitudes of Colorado having too quick freeze-to-bake - certainly we don’t get anything like some of the maritime climates on or off resort.

I think the closest we get is on groomers. Zuma Bowl can have some really good corn-like conditions on the groomers.

And at times off-piste, but the base is often so cold it gets refrozen from underneath with even minor shifts in cloud cover or wind or temps or it bakes to sticky. This window literally lasted one run before refreezing.

We probably hate to admit that some of the best snow that we consider corn in a high altitude continental climate is GMO. As the early season man made base goes isothermal (temps consistent through the snowpack and where the snow in the snowpack is no longer frozen) then we get great granular slush skiing.

So while an isothermal snowpack promotes good corn development (not subject to refreeze from the snowpack itself), once the Colorado snowpack goes isothermal it is already in severe decline and can lose 4” a day in the high altitude sun, and the off piste is usually dirty and rotten by then.

That’s why our snowpack charts look like this and always go off a cliff in mid to late May:

We have some awesome spring skiing, but our window between a full snowpack and powder skiing and completely done is very short.

 

[SkiSpeed]

We've had a pretty "wintery" spring here in the NE, but yesterday, 2/11, at Okemo, I skied magnificent corn from 10-4. Mountain skied beautiful; plenty of trails open (bumps and groomers) no crowds (afternoon was empty-can't figure out why people left). Oh Yeah!

 

[4ster]

 

[dbostedo]

^^^
How big a patch is that?

 

[4ster]

^^^
How big a patch is that?

It is just a handful of large kernels I dug up the other day. I took the photo for you @dbostedo , thought it may help.

 

[4ster]

Here are a few more from last years incredibly epic corn harvest around Tahoe.
It is the best when it develops that little bit of shine & about 1/2” to 1” deep...